Losing to garbage hands on the bubble

[yuriko oyama]

I notice a lot that when I'm very short, close to the bubble that I'm obviously out of, I get some really monster hands, a lot of + EV, ex: AK suited, AA, KK, QQ and I almost always get called by a garbage hand and I obviously lose .
no complaints, I'm in this game to play and learn. But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.
I would like to know if anyone has the same impression?
and if you agree with my attitude?

 

[jordanbillie]

Losing to "garbage" hands is good, it means you are getting it in with the better hand.

I know it feels like you always lose in these spots, but keep taking them.

Remember, you will lose almost every single MTT you play so make sure you lose in ways like this!

 

[Gallarado777]

before the bubble, they just want to throw you out of the tournament faster and give you a strong hand that you just throw away and stay in prizes don't play when there are few people left because you get a prize and then you can play

 

[puzzlefish]

Don't trust the big stack sitting on the big blind

 

[Andyreas]

But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.

The main goal of MTTs is to make it to final table / top 3 positions, where the big money is hidden.

To make it that far, you have to take some risks. Jamming with AKs, QQ+ is never a wrong decision and you're the big favourite when getting called. Even if that'll make you bust sometimes, securing ITM first before making a move will blind you down more and reduce the chances to go deep.

So even if it sucks to bust with a premium hand against garbage, it was definitely the right move!

 

[Risto234]

Don't trust the big stack sitting on the big blind

Even when you are the one with big stack ?!?

 

[CDNMAN 42]

I notice a lot that when I'm very short, close to the bubble that I'm obviously out of, I get some really monster hands, a lot of + EV, ex: AK suited, AA, KK, QQ and I almost always get called by a garbage hand and I obviously lose .
no complaints, I'm in this game to play and learn. But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.
I would like to know if anyone has the same impression?
and if you agree with my attitude?

Yes I have experienced the same thing, in fact I kept record of the number of times it happened (losing to garbage with a monster hand) and in 17 straightMTT Tourneys I lost either on the bubble or just before the final table to junk hands...they call it variance...I don't know what to call it except ugly.

 

[puzzlefish]

Even when you are the one with big stack ?!?

This one is a tough question. I will need more observations. But definitely when you are the smallest stack.

 

[G0930]

Don't trust the big stack sitting on the big blind

Doesn't really matter though ..Sure the big stack on BB allows to call the lowstack with a wide range of cards but if you got premium hand, math dictates to jam if you're super short . Otherwise blinds will only eat you up to the point where you can be called by literally any hand

 

[Kenzie 96]

I notice a lot that when I'm very short, close to the bubble that I'm obviously out of, I get some really monster hands, a lot of + EV, ex: AK suited, AA, KK, QQ and I almost always get called by a garbage hand and I obviously lose .
no complaints, I'm in this game to play and learn. But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.
I would like to know if anyone has the same impression?
and if you agree with my attitude?

Thing is if you let your stack get really short even if your monster gets called & holds up you may still find yourself in the same position. As the bubble approaches & you find your stack dwindling one frequently finds the play of the table tightening, start loosing up your shoving range & looking for shoving opportunities while you have enough of a stack to make a difference. Passive table respond with aggressive play & all that. After all we are looking to go deep not just min cash, are we not?

 

[houcineben10]

It happens to me also, today I lost with aces Putin a 3 barrel on a k high bord he call me in the flop then I shove in the turn he has deuces and in the river a 2 came omg 😱

 

[puzzlefish]

Doesn't really matter though ..Sure the big stack on BB allows to call the lowstack with a wide range of cards but if you got premium hand, math dictates to jam if you're super short . Otherwise blinds will only eat you up to the point where you can be called by literally any hand

Yes. The math says to do it. What I am saying is that the math doesn't seem to work out for me. Hopefully you do better jamming into a big stack on BB.

 

[G0930]

Yes. The math says to do it. What I am saying is that the math doesn't seem to work out for me. Hopefully you do better jamming into a big stack on BB.

Sure it doesn't always work..hell I once lost with a flopped full house (highest possible ) against a straight flush on the the river (villain had 1 out on the turn)

 

[puzzlefish]

Sure it doesn't always work..hell I once lost with a flopped full house (highest possible ) against a straight flush on the the river (villain had 1 out on the turn)

Ok how about this: grab a sheet of paper and a pencil. When you are playing an MTT and see someone jam with a small stack into a big stack that is on BB, count up how many times each position wins. Let me know if it's fairly even. Don't count the times BB folds. Classify a small stack as being half or smaller than the big stack.

 

[exer888]

I notice a lot that when I'm very short, close to the bubble that I'm obviously out of, I get some really monster hands, a lot of + EV, ex: AK suited, AA, KK, QQ and I almost always get called by a garbage hand and I obviously lose .
no complaints, I'm in this game to play and learn. But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.
I would like to know if anyone has the same impression?
and if you agree with my attitude?

Its all part of the game. Try to avoid big spots in bubble moments, or choose what is more important to you : Bubble or 1st place. Risk is always involved, bubble dont matter. Keep that in mind. And one more important thing : belive in process and your play. Once will be your day, and no "garbage hands" will win.

 

[exer888]

Yes I have experienced the same thing, in fact I kept record of the number of times it happened (losing to garbage with a monster hand) and in 17 straightMTT Tourneys I lost either on the bubble or just before the final table to junk hands...they call it variance...I don't know what to call it except ugly.

It is ugly, and you can do nothing about that. Its part of the game. Sooner you deal with that , you will become better player.

 

[nerobs9]

The fun starts right after the bubble) Low stakes players start going All In 😀

 

[fundiver199]

The problem is, that when you get very short, you lose your fold equity. If the player in BB, who is closing action, get a good enough price, then they are correct to call you with any two cards. And since all hands have equity preflop, you will regularly lose to, what you call "garbage" hands. The remedy is to loosen up your game, so you dont let your stack dwindle away just trying to make it into the money.

For instance if you have 12BB, and it folds to you in CO with K9, then you move all-in preflop instead of folding or limping, as I suspect, you are currently doing. If you get action, you are usually not in good shape, but you still have equity, so sometimes you will win and dubble up. And more importantly you have a lot of fold equity with 12BB, so most of the time nobody wants to contest you, and you increase your stack 20% without having to show down the winning hand.

 

[lauestla]

I notice a lot that when I'm very short, close to the bubble that I'm obviously out of, I get some really monster hands, a lot of + EV, ex: AK suited, AA, KK, QQ and I almost always get called by a garbage hand and I obviously lose .
no complaints, I'm in this game to play and learn. But I've preferred to make some very -EV plays and try to get to the ITM miserably, than simply go down shooting.
I would like to know if anyone has the same impression?
and if you agree with my attitude?

Hello. I experienced the same in a lot of MTTs. It happened so often to me that I almost could predict it before having a look on my cards : the monster (AA or KK most of the time), the big stack call with garbage and of course the bad beat. It was like a kind of glass ceiling, busting me out at the bubble systematically.
And, progressively, it started to happen less often. I don't really know why in fact. But now I don't often get a monster hand just near the bubble, so I don't have to face so many bad beats.
IMO there is no real solution to this problem. Just go on taking the right decision again and again. And once it will be profitable. Good luck.

 

[kitchy65]

The main goal of MTTs is to make it to final table / top 3 positions, where the big money is hidden.

To make it that far, you have to take some risks. Jamming with AKs, QQ+ is never a wrong decision and you're the big favourite when getting called. Even if that'll make you bust sometimes, securing ITM first before making a move will blind you down more and reduce the chances to go deep.

So even if it sucks to bust with a premium hand against garbage, it was definitely the right move!

It won't reduce them to zero...as it has for the previous player.
Who went bust by recklessly jamming with 99, when there was a raise and 3-bet in front of him.

Only for as long as you know a double up would put you back into the thick of it.... chip & a chair bud.

 

[makisaa]

At that point of the game, the bubble things are critical and everyone must be careful. The game is governed by variability and diversity. So you don't want to meet a bad moment of this volatility on the bubble. But this can happen, because it is maths. So we must act carefully and wisely.

 

[yuriko oyama]

Losing to "garbage" hands is good, it means you are getting it in with the better hand.

I know it feels like you always lose in these spots, but keep taking them.

Remember, you will lose almost every single MTT you play so make sure you lose in ways like this!

I agree with you, but even if we don't win all the tournaments (which is something quite obvious), we sometimes have the opportunity to at least have our buy in recovered, and I think that an adaptation in our game is always welcome.

 

[yuriko oyama]

before the bubble, they just want to throw you out of the tournament faster and give you a strong hand that you just throw away and stay in prizes don't play when there are few people left because you get a prize and then you can play

this is my very view of what happens.

 

[yuriko oyama]

Don't trust the big stack sitting on the big blind

he may have only one card left to win.

 

[yuriko oyama]

The main goal of MTTs is to make it to final table / top 3 positions, where the big money is hidden.

To make it that far, you have to take some risks. Jamming with AKs, QQ+ is never a wrong decision and you're the big favourite when getting called. Even if that'll make you bust sometimes, securing ITM first before making a move will blind you down more and reduce the chances to go deep.

So even if it sucks to bust with a premium hand against garbage, it was definitely the right move!

I agree with everything you said, but when we start playing regularly, we have the feeling that when we go far or when we won't be able to progress so much, personally I only think about making some adaptations to my game, since we know that AA is not a lifeline in which we will win 100% of the time, so in addition to the cards I have in my hand I try to analyze all the nuances of each situation at the table in a given tournament.