OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Wow - I can sort of understand if it's after the pot's been shipped and there's not really any way of knowing how much villain started with any more, but before that?
As far as I'm aware the procedure (particularly in a tournament all-in, cash games are often looser) should always be count what appears to be the smaller stack, cut that amount out from the larger stack, pass the remaining chips back to the player with the bigger stack, then put everything else in the pot before dealing another card. In what universe does it make sense to do anything other than that?
jordanbillie
Legend
Bronze Level
The problem arises with dealers that are too comfortable and start to take shortcuts. Maybe the dealer just pulled the stacks in and sized them up, clearly made a mistake and the floor made a mistake by saying it was too late.
KoRnholio
Visionary
Silver Level
Generally in a spot like this when I know I have them covered and lose a big pot, I ask the dealer "how much more is it?". If that sounds/looks right, then I put that much in the pot. If not, there is no harm is raising a question to confirm like "did you bring in the preflop bets" or whatnot, to make sure it is accurate.
I've seen way too many mistakes once there are multiple piles of chips in a pot. Especially true in sidepot situations.
I've seen way too many mistakes once there are multiple piles of chips in a pot. Especially true in sidepot situations.
G
gsxr5221
Rock Star
Silver Level
I heard dealers aren't supposed to do this either...One of them was telling me the reason is because say they went to go size them up (put both stacks next to one another) and then one falls over and gets mixed in with the other chips they have no way of telling how many chips that person actually had before they got mixed in and it can create a mess for everyone
MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
What you are saying makes sense but I see them do it all the time - at least where I'm at.
G
gsxr5221
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yea they used to do it all the time where I play too but then they recently stopped when they started getting some bigger name tournaments into the area like HPT and stuff...One of the players was like I'll just match his stack and the dealer was like no we aren't allowed to do that and then I asked my buddy who is a dealer there about it and thats what he told me which it does make sense so
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
FWIW if poker dealers in general had better chip skills they wouldn't need to take shortcuts like that.
I'm not saying mine are great (because they're not) but as far as casino dealers in general go, poker dealers usually rank around the bottom when it comes to chip handling. Improve that, and maybe less mistakes happen...
I'm not saying mine are great (because they're not) but as far as casino dealers in general go, poker dealers usually rank around the bottom when it comes to chip handling. Improve that, and maybe less mistakes happen...
G
gsxr5221
Rock Star
Silver Level
Funny you say that..I play at one of the dealer's home games every Monday night and he also is tryin to get me to join his class that he teaches for dealing and he's always talking about how people put their chips out to bet or how other dealers handle the chips..He says if you really want to impress me when I'm dealing then place your bet out their with a nice clean cut..No need to count out all your chips that your betting and then throw them out there so I can re-count it lol
He's actually fairly quick with the chip cutting and everything
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
The more i look at it the more i see it in almost every single allin.
FYI, there was no big gesture of a big push all my chips into the middle. I had 3 stacks of 20, with the balance on top (in 1K chips), in a neat stack, that i simply moved over the betting line.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Were your chips still distinct from the villain's stack when the floor was called?
I mean if the dealer pushed everything into one big pile I don't think the floor had any choice (outside of like refunding your BI of something).
I mean if the dealer pushed everything into one big pile I don't think the floor had any choice (outside of like refunding your BI of something).
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
Nah, I only called the floor once the pot had been decided and the balance given back to me, so everything was in a big pile in the middle. I mean as far as I could see there was no way in hell a mistake of that manitude could have been made. TBH the floor was pissed when i lost the hand as well.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
That's kind of what I figured. Floor really had no recourse since like you said they're not going to the cameras for a tourney. Huge dealer error though. I'm sure the dealer and floor just figured you'd hold and they wouldn't have to worry about it. Guess they figured wrong.
Did anyone else at the table speak up to say what they saw?
Did anyone else at the table speak up to say what they saw?
MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
Sorry, but if you have the guy out stacked I would consider the physical act of putting ALL your chips out there a big gesture, no matter how discretely it is done. Personally, if I think I'm going to win I am not moving my chips anywhere knowing those damn dealers are just going to knock them over in a pile and I'll have to restack.
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
Lots of places that i play actually make you put your chips over the line before cards are tabled.
G
gsxr5221
Rock Star
Silver Level
Agreed..Whenever I announce all in usually il just stick like a portion of one of the larger chip sizes right in front of me or across the bettin line but never a whole stack or all of my chips..The dealers there said as long as i announce it and then put a portion like that out for the cameras then I'm good to go and if someone calls me then I either get a count right there before the hand is played out and I place them out there or if theres no more action some of the dealers will run the hand out and then deal with the stack amounts afterwards, but I always try to get the dealers to tell me their amount for their stack size before I place all of my chips out there by saying how much does he have or something along those lines
jordanbillie
Legend
Bronze Level
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with doing this. I would recommend to anyone playing live to take this same action.
Rockbuster
Rock Star
Silver Level
wow not much to add with the previous posts dealer error happens but a floormans ruling should not be in error in this type of situation ever i dealt 7 yrs in nevada and ran the floor 6 months in between i never seen or heard of any of the floormen make errors like this it unexcusable in nevada or any casino card room we have eye in sky alls floorman has to do is call survaillace run back the camera on the table get to the stacks and count em down when eye is zeroed in on max magnication u can count hairs on back of players hands watch the tv series las vegas and ull see some of the survailence they use