Limp/Shove AA - Worst move in poker?

[Jacki Burkhart]

You play a 20BB stack effectively, so I don't think you can get away here often.

If he openraises, you 3bet preflop to get it in.
If he limps you obvious raise to get it in.
If he shoves you call his shove or overshove.

Hero doesn't have 20BB he has 20k, which at 200/400 is 50BB.


There is a time and place for limping AA and there is a time and place for folding QQ. In this spot, I would have seriously considered folding my QQ as the most likely hands that he would limp shove with would be AA/KK/AK and I don't really want to have all my chips in the middle vs. that range...

 

[hpb846]

am I a bad player because I use this exact strategy with aces frequently? well about 30% of the time ..........????????

 

[kmichaels]

People shove much more times with pocket pairs or big connectors than AA. They usually play that hand with a small raise, 2 or 2,5 bbs. Limping it´s too risky and shove can make your opponents fold. So a raise should be fine.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Hero doesn't have 20BB he has 20k, which at 200/400 is 50BB.

No way?

I wrote effectively! :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak

 

[mapt02h]

It's not the worst move in poker. It is entirely situation dependent. Sometimes it can be the best move in poker.

 

[etherghost]

It's not the worst move in poker. It is entirely situation dependent. Sometimes it can be the best move in poker.

I agree... It's opinionated statement. The people who mix it the most while applying their skills get the most profit and maximizing profit is the main and most important objective in poker.

 

[Vhyre]

In early position I will limp with aces then 3 bet in hopes of isolating a single player. if I can. He got his money in good for the stack size vs blinds, you just called with what you thought was a better hand, and wasn't. Such is poker..

 

[DeadlyAim]

I think your right Aces are 80% I win with frequency.... maybe 90% due to play.

I always bet big to get an iso... if you allow 2+ players in sounds like 5 were in there your asking to crack AA.

Don't know exact odds but when I see tourneys premium pairs with 2+ opponents go down to 40-60% even aces... with 3 it gets worse... if he had AA it was real stupid.

That said if you didn't bet QQ earlier hard on pre-flop that was bad too... wasting that hand for same above reasons... treat them like Aces big but if you get 2 player resistance like 2 allins maybe a fold is prudent... AJ + KQ isn't farfetched together your a coinflip.

2.5x bb suspicious to all the exact players 3x bb bets lol... maybe villain goes allin super fast or has a tell to warn you... that said losing QQ v AA nothing to be ashamed of... its hard to read that.

 

[tohos]

Against 'unknown' player for 20BB I'll call QQ everytime barring satellite tournament situations. You should think of the bets and pot sizes in terms of blinds rather than flat amounts.

And yes he might be doing it with middle pairs too and you just got unlucky and ran into AA. Looks like an easy call to me. Just a standard cooler

Edit: Seems like I forgot to answer your question. I don't think you can really call any move in poker a 'bad move'. It all depends on the situation and every move can become a good move in a specific scenario and in this case well it worked out for him.

 

[kidkvno1]

I was at a tournament recently blinds 200-400, Im sitting on 20k roughly. Im in the cutoff and have been able to steal blinds from the 2 older players in them, done in twice in about 7 rounds. Player in middle position who has been aggressive but skill level was unknown at the time. He limps in with AA, its folded to me and I look down at QQ. I pot the pot to $1350, SB instafolds, BB thinks for a minute and folds, he shoves all in for 8k. I've seen this from players like him and to me it signals a medium pair, such as 88-10 10, possibly even JJ. I tank for a minute and call. Now I know that an 8k call on queens is questionable, Im not really sure what my profit in this situation is, really the only hands to have me dominated are AA/KK and im flipping with AK. Anything else I have dominated pretty well. He then proceeded to win the pot and act like he was a pro, and made some comment that sorta pissed me off. I responded with "Limp/Shove aces is the worst move in poker"... is my assesment correct? This was about 80 mins into a live tourney

Each player has his/her own player image, you can't think that all players play the same way. It's a big leak if you keep thinking that way!

 

[sam1chips]

Each player has his/her own player image, you can't think that all players play the same way. It's a big leak if you keep thinking that way!

This +1.

 

[dj11]

Nowhere near the worst move in tourney poker.

You think u had it over the old guy, he was showing you just how wrong you are,

 

[invisile]

You play a 20BB stack effectively, so I don't think you can get away here often.

If he openraises, you 3bet preflop to get it in.
If he limps you obvious raise to get it in.
If he shoves you call his shove or overshove.

+1:shakehand

 

[psychotie]

Limping AA is imo in all situations the worst solution. Make it cheap for ur opponents to see a flop is like given them free cards . I never ever limp with AA
gl on the felts

 

[Refinado Tom]

Sometimes I limp AA when behind me, there is a aggressive player and I know that he very likely to raise strong.

 

[sam1chips]

I love limping AA UTG or UTG+1 when I'm at an aggressive cash table, or I know there are a couple of short stacks still behind me to act in a tournament.

As people have mentioned above, it's all situational.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

No way?

I wrote effectively! :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak :bootyshak

doh! you're right....my bad!

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Limping AA is imo in all situations the worst solution. Make it cheap for ur opponents to see a flop is like given them free cards . I never ever limp with AA
gl on the felts

Typical ABC Poker player who only does what Phil Hellmuth tells you to do.

You clearly don't know the purpose of limping with AA. Purpose of limping is to SQUEEZE people out of the hand and pick up the dead money while doubling up. If you smell a raise coming pre-flop, then it is wise to limp. When someone raises 4x the blind since you limped and then several people call since the raiser is loose, and then when they action is back to you where you just have to call 3 blinds more to see the flop, you reraise on top of it. At least half of the people in the pot will forfeit their hand AND the money they've put up to match original raiser's bet, hence taking their money uncontested. This is an advanced play that is beyond your level of thinking.

Best part of limping with AA in tournament is when you're on bubble, you limp with AA, some short-stack goes all-in, people behind short-stack will call since they think it's not much to call and they assume that you'll call and check it around on the flop. However, the moment they call short-stack's shove, you reshove all-in, forcing the callers to fold, and also, you might even get called with wide range of hands because they get emotional and angry about getting squeezed out, so if they have any Ace, any high suited cards such as KQ, or any pocket pair, they'll call you, hence widening up their calling range. By doing this, you don't just merely double up, you get dead money as a bonus too.

 

[itsmebobd]

I limp with AA or KK from time to time. How is this anywhere near close to worst play? Lot of times, it's the best play. I've done it lots of times. If you know someone's going to shove or raise, then limp shoving is the best thing to do. By doing this, you're getting DEAD MONEY from people who called original raiser's bet but yet, can't afford to call your bet, hence forcing them to give up the bet that they put out.

Limping with Aces/Kings is only horrible if you plan to win it by a showdown using the flop. Limping with Aces is usually done when they smell a raise coming pre-flop, so that they can reshove back all-in and take down the dead money. As "obviously" it may look for limp/shoving, sometimes, the pot is so juicy and the fact that people can't let go of their dead money, they will call you wide.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/200-nlhe-full-ring-qq-utg-230299

Correct, but I did forget to add the detail I hadnt played a hand and had just been moved to that table 4 hands earlier. He had no read on me, maybe he was trying to trap someone else but I doubt it was me :/

 

[trent32la]

Limping aces and kings isn't neccesarily a bad play at times...from bad past experiences I choose not to slowplay big hands like that unless im in a dead on perfect spot to do so...its always a risky play and can be -EV at times..you just need to know when to pick the right time to do so...after all....you rarely get those hands..the last thing you need is to get outflopped and go broke againist 84 off.

 

[fortopyan]

no limp !!! 3bet or push!!!

 

[itsmebobd]

Limping aces and kings isn't neccesarily a bad play at times...from bad past experiences I choose not to slowplay big hands like that unless im in a dead on perfect spot to do so...its always a risky play and can be -EV at times..you just need to know when to pick the right time to do so...after all....you rarely get those hands..the last thing you need is to get outflopped and go broke againist 84 off.

Exactly, I have limped aces in kings maybe 2 or 3 times total in 8+ years playing. It was against a known maniac, and twice was close to the bubble in a tournament. Against a maniac who has been raising every hand, and when ive limped and folded before. I just think this situation where he did it, it was completely unwarranted and a big time bad play. I just dont see how you can limp aces UTG without a plan. I think he was hoping to find someone to raise, but at what was a table full of older folks he was -EV more often than not doing this, lots of limpers (I stuck around a few minutes to watch, had to see if this guy knew wtf he was doing)

 

[JusSumguy]

If I'm at a table with an agro blind thief, I'm gonna play them the same way.

Pretty much looks to me like he played you.

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