Legitimate thinking?

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ibsiegel

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as far as the 44 hand goes the QQ shoved he didnt raise/call a shove he shoved and if you notice that isnt what i did i called the shove to my raise. I wouldnt play the hand i posted any different in either position. I wish i would have won but i didnt initiate the all in the utg did.
Further more that is why i didnt just shove because this exact result happens more often then not.
 
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ibsiegel

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C’mon Man – How many 4-bet all-in have you seen that are bluffs? I’d be surprised if I have ever 4-bet all-in with air!

Actually like i said he had done it to others at the table like 3 times and even showed 2 of them i thought he was doing it again and was wrong. But your right back to the topic.


I play the player so if a player has been patient and folding and folding and all of a sudden shoves when he isnt in the blind it would make me think he has AK or a solid pair at least a solid pair in his eyes..... since i have no investment at the time i would probably fold... but that is me.....
 
Lucothefish

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I don't mind a shove but with 13bb you do have room to wait for a better spot, particularly if the guys to your left aren't defending their blinds enough - if I'm stealing comfortably at this table I'll pass up on marginal spots like this.

Also, I doubt villain is quite at ATC point yet given his stack size. It seems more like you tried to convince yourself he was making a move.
 
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ssbn743

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I don't mind a shove but with 13bb you do have room to wait for a better spot, particularly if the guys to your left aren't defending their blinds enough - if I'm stealing comfortably at this table I'll pass up on marginal spots like this.

Also, I doubt villain is quite at ATC point yet given his stack size. It seems more like you tried to convince yourself he was making a move.

Yep- that’s exactly what I think happened. I think my decision making process is sound, but on the edge here I talked myself into a spot that I didn’t’ need to be in – of course I don’t know what the future held either, maybe this was the best I was going to get. It’s also easy to say I should have folded knowing now that I lost.

Even if I think middle pocket pair, like eights, for UTG – I’ve still got 2 overs and it is a standard race. But I certainly could have waited a while.
 
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ssbn743

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as far as the 44 hand goes the QQ shoved he didnt raise/call a shove he shoved and if you notice that isnt what i did i called the shove to my raise. I wouldnt play the hand i posted any different in either position. I wish i would have won but i didnt initiate the all in the utg did.
Further more that is why i didnt just shove because this exact result happens more often then not.

The exact same result happens 16% of the time – not more often than not!

You’re completely wasting my time – just stop posting!
 
duggs

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Yep- that’s exactly what I think happened. I think my decision making process is sound, but on the edge here I talked myself into a spot that I didn’t’ need to be in – of course I don’t know what the future held either, maybe this was the best I was going to get. It’s also easy to say I should have folded knowing now that I lost.

Even if I think middle pocket pair, like eights, for UTG – I’ve still got 2 overs and it is a standard race. But I certainly could have waited a while.

i fold here, id like to have a hand that dominates alot more of their range, probably like KJ+ 77+ A7s A8o+

unless we have no reason to think he is light then 77+ AJo A10s
 
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ssbn743

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i fold here, id like to have a hand that dominates alot more of their range, probably like KJ+ 77+ A7s A8o+

unless we have no reason to think he is light then 77+ AJo A10s

Yeah and I think the other factor here is my position. If I had actually been on the button instead of the cutoff it changes a great deal, especially 7 handed. Not only does that give me one extra hand to pick up some cards should I chose to fold – but if I chose to re-shove I have less chance of a third hand getting involved.

It all stems from what I think UTG is up to. I thought he was light based on his chip stack and position, but really didn’t have much additional information to go on and it cost me!

Anyway, my main concern here was whether my logic was sound and I think that it was – say maybe for the right reasons at the wrong time.
 
Poker Orifice

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The exact same result happens 16% of the time – not more often than not!

You’re completely wasting my time – just stop posting!
Why didn't I just say it like that ^ (tks :) )
 
Lucothefish

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Yep- that’s exactly what I think happened. I think my decision making process is sound, but on the edge here I talked myself into a spot that I didn’t’ need to be in – of course I don’t know what the future held either, maybe this was the best I was going to get. It’s also easy to say I should have folded knowing now that I lost.

Even if I think middle pocket pair, like eights, for UTG – I’ve still got 2 overs and it is a standard race. But I certainly could have waited a while.

The more I think the more convinced I am this hand is a fold.

Even in a turbo 13bb is workable, especially as the guys to your left have similar stacks. I've already said it in another post today, but 'raise wide, call tight'. Unpaired high cards are never that far ahead even against a random ATC range.

+1 to Duggs' ranges too and as I said I don't think UTG is as light as you think here. You already figured it was a race before you called so the next question you need to ask yourself is 'do I need to race yet?' If you're the best player at the table (or close to it) then the answer to this is often 'no'.

Re being BTN instead of CO: it's confirmed, having others left to act is huge. When playing ICM based push/fold poker you'd be amazed at just how much tighter your push range gets even going from SB to BTN...

...if you're in the SB for this hand and BB is calling with top 15% of hands, there's an 85% chance he won't wake up with a hand and call. In the CO for the same hand assuming BTN, SB and BB all call with 15%, it drops to just a 61% chance that you'll be HU here :eek:
 
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ibsiegel

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibsiegel
as far as the 44 hand goes the QQ shoved he didnt raise/call a shove he shoved and if you notice that isnt what i did i called the shove to my raise. I wouldnt play the hand i posted any different in either position. I wish i would have won but i didnt initiate the all in the utg did.
Further more that is why i didnt just shove because this exact result happens more often then not.
The exact same result happens 16% of the time – not more often than not!

You’re completely wasting my time – just stop posting!

i was actually talking to poker orifice with this comment sorry to waste your time......
 
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carson

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what ever

yeah this kind of thinking is bad.

We're deff ahead of the original raisers range, we're getting called by one of the blinds like, 12% of the time? So yeah, rejamming is fine.


I don't think you fully understood my statement. this is not the tounament mind set i am conveying.....anyways iwuz right lol
 
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