Late stage tournament strategy with KK

Jayplay916

Jayplay916

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Ok tournament of 99 players with 40 left you have 4500 blinds are at 100/200 are you considered short stack at this time? So your dealt KK in 2nd early position 1 caller in front of you what do you do next?
 
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Jamuka7657

Rock Star
22.5 big blinds would be considered short stacked, but not short enough where you have to shove most playable hands. In the situation you described I think a raise is appropriate. KK is good enough where you can try to induce players to call or reraise you. With a middle pair a shove would be more appropriate.
 
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da22duke

Rock Star
I'd raise but not an all in. Especially with an under the gun limper. There is a chance he shoves when it comes back to him and I'll always take my chances with KK.
 
Chief talking bull

Chief talking bull

Visionary
It's tough to say because you can play the same hand so many different ways in the same position and can still be right or wrong. The only difference is how well did it work for you in that moment. You just have to play the way you feel it. Listen to your inner voice unless he doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
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PLAYFUL1

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Pocket pair of KK's is the 2nd highest hand in poker so raise, raise and raise more:bebored:
 
slurredreaction

slurredreaction

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I would bet 3x the blinds and pray someone re-raises me. If I do get callers and there's no A on the flop i'm moving half of my leftover stack in. I don't like many players in the hand when I have a pocket pair. I try to get heads up so my chances of winning are greater.
 
pancho_1954

pancho_1954

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I would only increase the bet a little, and I would see how the play is developing, how would be the behavior of the players and then decide what my next step would be, of course taking into account the flop
 
radartodd69

radartodd69

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I would go all in from such an early position. If you just raise 3x or 5x or whatever, you put yourself in a position to get called by more people who have a better position than you. Pocket kings are vulnerable after the flop vs. too many players.
 
elflake

elflake

Rock Star
I raise pot,( 1400 plus whatever the antes are ), and hope someone re-raises behind me.
 
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Mikeloti13

Rock Star
Raise like you usually do. Someone raise 3x blinds me personally 2.2 blinds and 2.8. I try to make it as random as possible so i dont become predictable during the tournament. Sometimes i raise 2.2 with AA and sometimes 2.8 with some suited connectors. On the other hand, if someone 3 bets you , you should then 4bet all in because you are a little short stacked.
 
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Andy_mirON

Enthusiast
22.5 blind, I would have raised up to 1300
in this situation opponents could invest in the bank
hope and wait for reraise from sb or bb
so i can push all in and have some free money in the middle
 
cranberry

cranberry

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I would have raised to 4-5 bb. In this case, this is the best option. If an opponent makes a call, then it is more likely that he has an ace on his hands.
 
Nikolay Nakhaev

Nikolay Nakhaev

Legend
in such cases it is already difficult to give advice.
as always, the opponent will have 7-3 different suits, and eventually he will win, and my two KK ........ will disappear.
so I immediately OII IN .
 
iamtoldurghey

iamtoldurghey

Enthusiast
Raise 2.5x + the limp

Then pray for a raise and jam then watch the 4 cards flush make u cry when he shows you 67 off.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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I agree with these responses:
22.5 big blinds would be considered short stacked, but not short enough where you have to shove most playable hands. In the situation you described I think a raise is appropriate. KK is good enough where you can try to induce players to call or reraise you. With a middle pair a shove would be more appropriate.

I'd raise but not an all in. Especially with an under the gun limper. There is a chance he shoves when it comes back to him and I'll always take my chances with KK.


They highlight how KK is strong enough that you really don't mind whatever happens if we just raise small, but with some other hand types we sort of prefer to just take it down (or force the all in right here and right now).

From a philosophical standpoint, the whole concept of "short stacked" is a little outdated imo and I think you're trying to also ask the point at which it becomes necessary to choose shove or fold as your only two options. There will probably always be a stack depth where it's mathematically correct to pick one of those two (and not raise smaller), but over time, poker theory has pushed this number first larger and then smaller.

If you look back ~15 years ago, it would be considered crazy to go all in on a 10bb stack with a weak hand because you still have room to play, and you'd probably be doing some limping too. Then 5 years ago it'd be considered sort of weird to do anything other than jam or fold a ~15bb stack. Today, the number has sort of shifted downward. You can find some pretty competent opponents minraising off of 10 and 11bb stacks, and even folding to jams sometimes.

So there's definitely grey area here, but particularly in soft fields, you won't go too wrong playing straight up, and just trying to maximize value with your really good hands, and maximizing fold equity with the rest when you get down to that ~20bb zone.
 
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rmcneice

Rock Star
I would raise here about 4 BB which is a standard (2.5 to 3) + 1 for the limper. I want to limit the field and at the best have only the limper and perhaps the BB come along. If we get a lot of callers behind they are like any other pocket pair pretty much SET or FOLD to any bet.

Post flop they are more than likely still just a pocket pair so play them carefully.
 
Yonip17

Yonip17

Rock Star
it depends to the position. if your on udg you can raise in minimum and check the flop. but if your on late or botton you can raise 4bet 5bet or shoves, so that you can take pot ryt away.
 
lsbenn

lsbenn

Rock Star
I would raise atleast 4 if not 5 BB, I want to eliminate players but have atleast one caller. Then after flop if no A I bet strong.
 
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scubed

Visionary
Ok tournament of 99 players with 40 left you have 4500 blinds are at 100/200 are you considered short stack at this time? So your dealt KK in 2nd early position 1 caller in front of you what do you do next?
Though there is no default way to play, you are raising (not shoving) KK here every time with 20+ big blinds. My thought is to raise pot.

What is the caller (limper) in front of you limping with? Would he limp with AA? If not - you have him dominated. In raising you want to fold out Ace-Rag as they will have ~23% chance of Ace on flop. If the caller (limper) folds, oh well - you picked up 2.5 big blinds.

If the original caller re-raises you know you are up against a strong hand, at this time you can decide whether shoving or flatting will be more profitable based raiser's tendencies. Perhaps flatting since this would close the betting round. If an Ace flops - you can get away from the hand, if not, you can shove.

With 40 players left (probably ~15 get paid?) you want to maximize your profit with the KK the best you can. You can't fold to the $$ with 22 big blinds. This strong big pair only comes around 1 in 221 hands so you'll want to use it to the maximum.
 
ScooperNova

ScooperNova

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There is a lot of good advice here, even though some of it is contradictory. Poker is a funny game like that.
Some people like a shove in the position described, because they fear there will be too many callers, lessening the power of KK. I would suggest that a smaller raise would induce about the same amount of folding because players are weary of a shorter stack making any type of significant preflop raise from early position. Players will feel like it's an attempt to lure them in and act accordingly.
 
Nelson1712

Nelson1712

Rock Star
in my opinion KK is all in preflop .. of doing just call you can match any Ax
 
NinjaHands

NinjaHands

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Min raise. If someone goes bigger than 3x, I'd fold. If everybody limps in, you're good to go
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

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100/200 is NOT late stage tournament.

And what is his stack size ?

Bet 850 he calls
Gotta be super careful out of position

Bet ~1200 he folds (probably)

Up to you.....

Good luck !
 
madjek

madjek

Rock Star
Min raise. If someone goes bigger than 3x, I'd fold. If everybody limps in, you're good to go
You are folding KK to 3x reraise preflop? I guess you only play 2 or 3 hands an entire tournament then? I think you can play it any way suggested here, you don't have to do same thing every time either, imo goal is to get as many chips in preflop as possible, preferably all in with one caller. But if I min raise, I'm doing it HOPING someone 3bets so I can 4bet, certainly not folding KK preflop ever.
 
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