just one hand that went wrong can cost you a tournament

[Baldy86]

seriously . imagine you have played very well and build your chips . and you get a good hand and hit the board nicely ....but booom ....you got sucked out . now your stack went from big to small and you are shortstacked . in the middle of the tournament

just one hand can ruin your tournament life

one of the reasons why i like cashgames more

what is your opinion on this

 

[puzzlefish]

You can also lose a whole cash buy-in with a bad beat. That's like a whole tournament but in one hand. Several times.

 

[Gutshot Gus]

I think that is what they call variance. I've never seen a crystal ball on a poker table. You can get your money in with the best hand, but the math is gonna have a suckout a certain % of the time.

 

[IADaveMark]

One of the mid-tournament strategies is exactly in this line... risk-mitigation. Many players go through the progression of a hand thinking, "these are the ways this could go right and it would be awesome!" Instead, one needs to be thinking "what are the ways this could go wrong and how do I minimize my losses?"

In a similar vein, people over-simplify success to "how many hands did you win and lose?" The trick here is, assuming 2 sessions where the percentage of hands won/lost is the same, how much did you win on the ones you did and how much did you lose on the ones you didn't? Trying to get the most money out of the ones you win and lose the least money on the ones that didn't go your way is one of the main secrets to getting over the edge.

For example, let's say you play 20% of the hands and win/lose 50%/50%. If the amounts you win or lose is the same per hand, you are going to break even over time. Net 0. It doesn't matter if you play more hands (e.g. 30%) or fewer hands (e.g. 10%). If you are 50/50 win/loss, you are still at net 0.

OTOH, if you manage to win hands where you gain 15bb and lose hands where you lose 10bb, that 50/50 split is now in your favor. This is why we hear people use the phrase, "lost the minimum". They worked their way down/out of a bad situation. The other side is convincing opponents to put more money in when you have the nuts (or simply the best hand).

One of my reminders to myself is: "trickle down; jump up."

So coming back to the original post, recognize the risk and try to not put yourself in situations where you could lose all (most?) of your chips on a single hand. You might not win some pots where you could have but you would rather lose 5bb on the occasional questionable hand where you were ahead than dropping 40bb on it instead because you left yourself open.

 

[makisaa]

Yes, it can happen, when things don't go as we would like, but it is in the game. There are possibilities to recover from this with patient and some good moves. Also this can happen to the cash games too and you can recover with the same way, but I think it is more difficult, because the pressure is bigger.

 

[scuxbr]

That's why it's good to manage, if there's a chance that your hand is not the favorite, make a bet that if you lose, you'll still have the healthy chips.

 

[dallam]

I like MTTs because of the constantly moving blinds and prize pools. From time to time you will just reduce the number of risky situations and you will need luck less. Of course there can be key hands when both of you looking strong and getting till the roads confident - that's where the big amount of chips can come from.
So I would say confident that if we are looking our bankroll management in long term, we should see our games in long term too, and separate the bad actions from the unlucky ones - and when we learned our lesson, just move on to the next MTT. Or in your case, if its not suitable for you, searching for another format, like cash game.

 

[Baldy86]

You can also lose a whole cash buy-in with a bad beat. That's like a whole tournament but in one hand. Several times.

yes but the difference is that in cash games the stack you build is actually all money you can immediately take and go

in a tournament it is just chips . and you need to make it post bubble to win anything and get to a decent place to actually win a nice amount

in a cashgame you just stand up with your nice stack and take the money and your efforts were not for nothing unlike like often in a tournament

 

[LetterRip]

It is true that one bad hand can ruin your tournament. Variance means that you will have some tournaments with bad hands, and some with runs of good hands. Since tournaments tend to be top end payout heavy, the real goal is to take advantage of the high variance, and use the variance in your favor when you get lucky.

 

[mattiebumpo]

One of the mid-tournament strategies is exactly in this line... risk-mitigation. Many players go through the progression of a hand thinking, "these are the ways this could go right and it would be awesome!" Instead, one needs to be thinking "what are the ways this could go wrong and how do I minimize my losses?"

In a similar vein, people over-simplify success to "how many hands did you win and lose?" The trick here is, assuming 2 sessions where the percentage of hands won/lost is the same, how much did you win on the ones you did and how much did you lose on the ones you didn't? Trying to get the most money out of the ones you win and lose the least money on the ones that didn't go your way is one of the main secrets to getting over the edge.

For example, let's say you play 20% of the hands and win/lose 50%/50%. If the amounts you win or lose is the same per hand, you are going to break even over time. Net 0. It doesn't matter if you play more hands (e.g. 30%) or fewer hands (e.g. 10%). If you are 50/50 win/loss, you are still at net 0.

OTOH, if you manage to win hands where you gain 15bb and lose hands where you lose 10bb, that 50/50 split is now in your favor. This is why we hear people use the phrase, "lost the minimum". They worked their way down/out of a bad situation. The other side is convincing opponents to put more money in when you have the nuts (or simply the best hand).

One of my reminders to myself is: "trickle down; jump up."

So coming back to the original post, recognize the risk and try to not put yourself in situations where you could lose all (most?) of your chips on a single hand. You might not win some pots where you could have but you would rather lose 5bb on the occasional questionable hand where you were ahead than dropping 40bb on it instead because you left yourself open.

Well written post. Variance and bad beats will happen, but minimizing your losses and surviving to play another hand are critical to tournament success.

 

[Poker_Mike]

seriously . imagine you have played very well and build your chips . and you get a good hand and hit the board nicely ....but booom ....you got sucked out . now your stack went from big to small and you are shortstacked . in the middle of the tournament

just one hand can ruin your tournament life

one of the reasons why i like cashgames more

what is your opinion on this

I think that is what they call variance. I've never seen a crystal ball on a poker table. You can get your money in with the best hand, but the math is gonna have a suckout a certain % of the time.

I agree with Gus.

But one needs to realize - there is variance between tournaments - and yes variance within one tournament.

I prefer to run medium in the beginning of a tournament and then run good at the end!

Good luck !

 

[MattRyder]

seriously . imagine you have played very well and build your chips . and you get a good hand and hit the board nicely ....but booom ....you got sucked out . now your stack went from big to small and you are shortstacked . in the middle of the tournament

just one hand can ruin your tournament life

one of the reasons why i like cashgames more

what is your opinion on this

I agree completely. It does only take one hand to destroy the result of hours of disciplined and smart play.

Cash games have the big advantage that you start and stop when you want. If you feel like you’re losing your train off thought you can just take a break. You absolutely cannot do that in a tournament.

 

[Gutshot Gus]

You get used to the reality that poker is 55 minutes of watching paint dry and 5 minutes of bungee jumping. The trick is to know when to bungee jump.

 

[sulzerrt]

It`s the same when you win hand against someone, but you that this is ok, when it comes against you it`s become no "ok"))

 

[CaptainMooti]

seriously . imagine you have played very well and build your chips . and you get a good hand and hit the board nicely ....but booom ....you got sucked out . now your stack went from big to small and you are shortstacked . in the middle of the tournament

just one hand can ruin your tournament life

one of the reasons why i like cashgames more

what is your opinion on this

It is true what you are saying. Generally speaking, from what I understand, you want to play tighter (more nut heavy) with a larger stack for big pots and be more sure about your outcome.
Don't be upset at variance, your time will come! It is one of the things that makes poker fun.
Good luck at the tables!

 

[puzzlefish]

yes but the difference is that in cash games the stack you build is actually all money you can immediately take and go

in a tournament it is just chips . and you need to make it post bubble to win anything and get to a decent place to actually win a nice amount

in a cashgame you just stand up with your nice stack and take the money and your efforts were not for nothing unlike like often in a tournament

You are right.

You can also sit at a cash game, spend hours, and leave with less money than when you started. You can find yourself all-in several times and be down several buy-ins.

When variance is not in our favour, playing poker hurts. The big difference is in cash games we can decide when to stop hurting.

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

This again, is about playing the tourn structure rather than just the cards.

There are going to be times when you're ahead and still lose but you have learn how to avoid those spots and think about the risk factor of ending your tourn by playing certain hands.

The easiest old saying for playing tourns is not to mess around with another big stack at a table unless you have to and even then go with caution because they're the only one that can bust you out of a tourn. And thats just one thing to watch out for while playing tourns and books have been written on what to look for so no point going on that issue.

To this bailing on cash games, for a lot of folks, if theyre a losing player then getting up from the table when they're ahead will not help them regardless of what they think.

It just means that they will have another stack to go through and lose. The only way to keep that money as a losing player is to quit playing.

We've all seen the posts and stories of "I was up $100 or whatever and lost it all and I did it a few times and . . . . "

My point is won't matter if you're ahead or not and decide to bail on a table. Even the best players in the world go broke.

So even if you're game is ahead of the competition you're playing, you can still go broke by ignoring bankroll management or you don't have the skill to pick the right table to match your style of play or to recognize the players at the table are better than you.

There are just so many aspects beyond playing the cards is another point I'm trying to make. Cash games require general knowledge of the game you're playing but tourns require general knowledge and knowledge how to play the tourn structure.

 

[Joselmb31]

With the right villain it's almost impossible, but against any villain for sure.

 

[dlam]

Takes different skills in tournaments. More patient and disapline in tournaments The game could take a long time if get to final table.
I have a hard time with managing short stack. Cause I’m cash game I can reload up
It’s different skill to work with short stack
In deeper stack I feel it more like a cash game and can play to the river
So I really have to take into account the different stack size at the table.
Often at the cash game most players have enough chips to deep or reload if lose some buy in
It’s just a different game in tournament play

 

[gassstation]

Anything can happen, Pocket AA can lose to any cards. This is poker, luck here also takes some%.

 

[messats]

this is why it is important to have table image, so you can control the flow of the pot
if your odds are not 90% and above, do not be greedy and try to over bet the pot, this is what gets the best of players, when they're rivered and they're to deep or pot committed

 

[Madalin Poke]

I think in the online environment it's a little harder to apply reasonable strategies, so just one wrong hand that can cost you a tournament can be found more often than in live poker. I got hit by such hands playing online very often.

 

[dlam]

Cash games in NLHE generally have to wait 2-3 hours to have decent chance at 2-3 big pots
With tournaments. I’m looking to last as long as possible. I feel everyone is going to lose their stack except the last player standing. So every 1-2 hours I hand around the closer I’m the money. I don’t think how much chips I can win per hours like in cash games. And cash games at least I can change seats. Or tables. In tournaments have to adjust with stacks size changes and get used to same seat position

 

[mariale_1990]

that happens a lot, it's frustrating and annoying when that happens but it's part of the game, I think it's about how fast you can mentally recover and take control of your game to get your chips back, obviously it won't be easy and frustration can get you make it worse you have to learn to deal with those situations and well I don't think the same thing can happen in cashgames

 

[GIB]

Undoubtedly this happens. A lot depends on my playing style. There are times when I get lucky and win with a weaker hand. From such cases, the taste of victory in the tournament is more joyful. Can't you lose your entire stack in cash games!?