HU SNG strategy

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baudib1

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OK yeti discussion went nowhere.

Do you guys have a donking range vs. PFR?
 
cjatud2012

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OK yeti discussion went nowhere.

Do you guys have a donking range vs. PFR?

I don't know what yeti is :confused:

And not really - which probably isn't a great thing. The only thing I can think of that might be good is a d-bet to induce.
 
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baudib1

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i gave examples of yeti above

This theory was created by a long-time 2+2 poster. It stats: A player who 3-bets on a dry, paired board is [almost] always bluffing.
 
cjatud2012

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Ah okay, yes that makes sense.

So in both hands we're not really bluffing when we're 3-betting are we? I guess that's sort of the point then. That could be good when we're up against certain opponents but to some people the 3-bet is still going to be scary.
 
_dogmeat

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Aaargh, shit like that tilts me to the extreme. I've been playing this guy for well over 45 minutes, grinding him down to less than 1K chips on several occasions, and he still manages to come back from it. Then this happens:

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $160(BB) Replayer
Hero ($4,416)
Donkey ($1,584)

Dealt to Hero Q Q

Donkey calls $80, Hero raises to $480, Donkey raises to $1,584 (AI), Hero calls $1,104

Hero shows Q Q
(Pre 89%, Flop 83.5%, Turn 90.9%)

Donkey shows T Q
(Pre 11%, Flop 16.5%, Turn 9.1%)

FLOP ($3,168) 9 A K

TURN ($3,168) 9 A K 4

RIVER ($3,168) 9 A K 4 J


Donkey wins $3,168

They should have sent a ****ing poet!


Now, on a more serious note: the Yeti thorem. I haven't really applied it in practice, because in order for it to be of any use to you, you have to be bluffing too, and I haven't really found a great spot to 4bet bluff, given the stacksizes with most HUSNGs. I might try it soon in a home game though :D

Quite frankly, it terrifies me to 4bet bluff. Given the fact that if I'm wrong, I'd be out of the tourney in which, most of the time, I know I'm a big favorite anyway.

Q: What kind of tourneys do you guys play? Regulars, turbos, hyper-turbos? I personally find the double stack HUSNGs at FT most to my liking, given that I come from a cash bg.
 
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baudib1

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Some guy just pwn3d me when i 3-bet bluffed a paired board lol.
 
_dogmeat

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Some guy just pwn3d me when i 3-bet bluffed a paired board lol.

Don't know about you, but ever since I learned about the Yeti, every other flop is paired, lol (Just like when I read Barry Greenstein's book, I always seem to notice when an Ace hits the river :D )

Btw, I think I found why the loose aggressive style works against most people. See, when you raise every button and 3bet quite often, taking stabs at every flop and cbetting almost everything (depending on board texture, of course, but most flops, because your opponent just plays fit or fold), your opponent just waits till he has a decent hand to play back at you. But, and this is where it gets interesting, now you have relative position.

Say you raise pf from the button, villain calls and checks the flop. You do your usual stabbing at around half pot (because he folds no matter what the bet is) and he check-raises you all-in.

Now you look down at your cards and either see trash and fold it or see the nuts and take his stack. Sound right?

First of all, he has no info about your hand. You're doing this both with pure trash, as a semi-bluff and when you have the nuts. So he's fed up with you stealing every single pot from him and decides to put you to the test (or at least so he thinks).

But he's at a disadvantage here, because once he goes all in, he has no control over the hand. Since people rarely do this with the nuts and more often than not with something as vulnerable as top pair, he's at our mercy, basically. And it's a pretty easy decision for us, from here on.

P.S. I don't think I have ever 4bet bluffed before. Maybe because I've been playing only micros, but I don't think I really have. I may have done it a few times live though. Afair, it always ended badly.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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though that my style has change alot since i made this video.....enjoy


 
_dogmeat

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gg, DoT.

How do you guys color-code people in the poker client? In cash games, I have 8 categories (from Loose/Passive/Passive to Tight/Aggressive/Aggressive), but I don't see much use of this in HUSNGs.

Maybe just a few categories: winning player, losing player (fish), winning reg, losing reg.

I just had an Aha! moment: at first I thought the Yeti theorem could be applied only to paired boards. It states in it's definition, though, that it applies to all dry boards. So why would it only apply to dry boards? Well, because if the board is wet, villain will want to 3bet his hand against potential draws and such, given that a lot of people like raising with draws.

And since the board is dry, there are no draws possible at least on the flop, there is no reason to push off weaker hands like top pair type hands or worse. He would definitely want us to continue firing the turn and river, if possible, setting the trap. This way also allows us to catch up on the turn and improve to a hand that can stand a second barrel. He also allows us to second barrel on good turn cards, thus inducing very well.

I'm just explaining it to myself, basically, but I like trying to explain ideas that are new to me.

P.S. Last night I owned a poor guy's soul on two paired boards. I don't remember the second one, but the first one was TT8, and I had T8 (one of my favorites :D I love hands with T in them; except T2). I bet, he raised and I 3bet him, he then 4bet shoves (my image was very wild and he was a tight player, so I assumed he had a good hand. Plus I had folded to some of his 4bets before). We did this two times, once the board was, as I said, TT8, and the second time it was something like JJ4, both times I had a boat and he had pocket AA. Lol! Just... :X
P.P.S. That's what I meant in my previous post about having a wild image and relative position.
 
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_dogmeat

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:10c4::10s4::5s4: is not considered a dry board, is it? I mean, it's paired, yeah, but it has a flush draw. The Yeti doesn't apply to this board, right?
 
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baudib1

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i posted this in my other thread, but just for you, dogmeat:


No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
SB (2,911)
Hero (BB) (3,089)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is BB 10:spade: 6:diamond:
SB raises to 40, Hero raises to 80, SB calls 40

Flop: Q:diamond: 4:club: Q:spade: (160, 2 players)
Hero bets 80, SB raises to 180, Hero raises to 280, SB raises to 380, SB types in chat, "shove"Hero raises to 880, SB folds

Final Pot: 1,420

Hero wins 1,420 (net +460)

SB lost 460
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Subbed, my HU's needs A LOT of work. I'd say it's probably my biggest leak in STT's (as in ROI is suffering).
Any books or videos people can suggest to make me better (this thread is helping a ton already).
 
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baudib1

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:10c4::10s4::5s4: is not considered a dry board, is it? I mean, it's paired, yeah, but it has a flush draw. The Yeti doesn't apply to this board, right?

The difference is people will make moves on this flop with 2 spades.
 
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baudib1

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Subbed, my HU's needs A LOT of work. I'd say it's probably my biggest leak in STT's (as in ROI is suffering).
Any books or videos people can suggest to make me better (this thread is helping a ton already).

HU in STTs is different from deepstack HU games. Typically when you get to HU in a 9-player tournament you have very few big blinds so most raises are pot-committing and it's usually a shovefest.

Conventional wisdom is any pair is a good hand HU; it's tough to make pairs.
 
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baudib1

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How about a 3-street PLO bluff

I think I credibly represent a boat and he never has AK+ here.

Pot Limit Omaha Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$2 + $0.15 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,650)
BB (2,350)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is SB 7:spade: 10:club: Q:heart: J:club:
Hero raises to 60, BB calls 40

Flop: K:spade: 5:club: A:heart: (120, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 120, BB calls 120

Turn: 3:diamond: (360, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 360, BB calls 360

River: 3:heart: (1,080, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 980, BB folds

Final Pot: 2,060

Hero wins 2,060 (net +540)

BB lost 540
 
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baudib1

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std PLO nitroll

shood just shove turn but i think he has a ton of air

Pot Limit Omaha Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$2 + $0.15 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,420)
BB (2,580)

Blinds: 15/30

Pre-Flop: (45, 2 players) Hero is SB 8:club: 4:heart: 4:spade: 3:diamond:
Hero raises to 90, BB calls 60

Flop: 6:heart: 4:diamond: A:heart: (180, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 180, BB calls 180

Turn: 6:spade: (540, 2 players)
BB bets 540, Hero calls 540

River: A:diamond: (1,620, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero says "nitroll", Hero checks

Final Pot: 1,620
BB shows
K:diamond: J:diamond: 5:spade: 7:heart:
Hero shows a full house, Fours full of Aces
8:club: 4:heart: 4:spade: 3:diamond:

Hero wins 1,620 (net +810)

BB lost 810
 
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jbbb

jbbb

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std PLO nitroll

shood just shove turn but i think he has a ton of air

Pot Limit Omaha Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$2 + $0.15 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,420)
BB (2,580)

Blinds: 15/30

Pre-Flop: (45, 2 players) Hero is SB 8 4 4 3
Hero raises to 90, BB calls 60

Flop: 6 4 A (180, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 180, BB calls 180

Turn: 6 (540, 2 players)
BB bets 540, Hero calls 540

River: A (1,620, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero says "nitroll", Hero checks

Final Pot: 1,620
BB shows
K J 5 7
Hero shows a full house, Fours full of Aces
8 4 4 3

Hero wins 1,620 (net +810)

BB lost 810


I don't get why you checked on the river?
Not much beats you, credibaly he could have A6 but even that's unlikely. I think a lot of Ax's will call and hands with a 6 in will call too if you make a small - med bet on the river with a plan of calling a shove.
 
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baudib1

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I was nitrolling, also he did an ungodly check-raise on me in a stupid spot where i folded QQQ55.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

Dreams of Tragedy

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Subbed, my HU's needs A LOT of work. I'd say it's probably my biggest leak in STT's (as in ROI is suffering).
Any books or videos people can suggest to make me better (this thread is helping a ton already).


it depends on your playing style, load some videos up on youtube and I'll take alook on what you need work on.
 
_dogmeat

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I was nitrolling, also he did an ungodly check-raise on me in a stupid spot where i folded QQQ55.

I don't know. It's a strange spot. You definitely nit-rolled him, but was there any reason for that? Sure, he made you lay down a boat before, but here very few hands beat you, and it's very unlikely he has one of those hands. There are already two aces and two 6's on the board, and you've accounted for 3 4's. So it's very unlikely he has a 4, and slightly more likely he has an A or a 6. But it's very, very unlikely he has a boat (i.e. A6, 46, A4). That's just three combos of 5 cards. Definitely calling a shove there. He might be doing this with any A, IMO.

P.S. What other thread?
 
jbbb

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I was nitrolling, also he did an ungodly check-raise on me in a stupid spot where i folded QQQ55.
Check-raise is perfect, your well ahead of him most the time I think as he probably thinks any A or 6 is the nuts at this point.
(as _dogmeat said, A4, 46 and A6 is a very, very small part of his range)

it depends on your playing style, load some videos up on youtube and I'll take alook on what you need work on.
Ok mate I will do over the next few days.
 
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baudib1

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to reiterate how much getting into the head of your opponent helps.

these two hands illustrate this.

Had dead read on this guy; he would always bet air and slowplay monsters to the river. First hand, I will concede it was played non-standard except preflop. If he bets flop I was check-raising. When he checks it back I knew he had a monster. Still don't bet when A hits turn. Again, if he bet, I was raising. All in all, lose the very minimum with TPTK/NFD when he should have doubled up.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
SB (2,050)
Hero (BB) (3,950)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is BB K:heart: A:heart:
SB calls 10, Hero raises to 80, SB calls 60

Flop: 2:spade: 7:heart: Q:heart: (160, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks

Turn: A:spade: (160, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks

River: 2:diamond: (160, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 160, Hero calls 160

Final Pot: 480
Hero shows
K:heart: A:heart:
SB shows a full house, Twos full of Queens
Q:club: 2:club:

SB wins 480 (net +240)

Hero lost 240



Conversely, this hand was a super-easy shove on river with A-high when no draws hit.


No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,810)
BB (2,190)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is SB A:heart: Q:spade:
Hero raises to 60, BB calls 40

Flop: 2:spade: 4:heart: 4:spade: (120, 2 players)
BB bets 100, Hero calls 100

Turn: 10:heart: (320, 2 players)
BB bets 320, Hero calls 320

River: 8:club: (960, 2 players)
BB bets 960, Hero raises to 1,920, BB folds

Final Pot: 3,840

Hero wins 3,840 (net +1,440)

BB lost 1,440
 
B

baudib1

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gratuitous brag post
this guy was a good player
we had some super leveling wars. lots of yeti here too

hand 1
No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,140)
BB (2,860)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is SB 3:heart: 4:diamond:
Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: 7:heart: A:club: A:spade: (80, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 20, BB raises to 70, Hero raises to 120, BB raises to 300, Hero calls 180

Turn: 6:diamond: (680, 2 players)
BB bets 380, Hero calls 380

River: 8:heart: (1,440, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero goes all-in 2,420, BB folds

Final Pot: 3,860
Hero shows
3:heart: 4:diamond:

Hero wins 3,860 (net +720)

BB lost 720

Hand 2
pretty much timed down debating to shove this, but i thought of Zeebo.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (2,250)
BB (3,750)

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is SB 7:heart: 3:heart:
Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: 4:club: 4:spade: 4:heart: (80, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 60, BB raises to 200, Hero calls 140

Turn: A:diamond: (480, 2 players)
BB bets 360, Hero calls 360

River: J:club: (1,200, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Final Pot: 1,200
BB shows three of a kind, Fours
5:spade: 7:club:
Hero shows three of a kind, Fours
7:heart: 3:heart:

Hand 3

No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$5 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go

Stacks:
Hero (SB) (3,230)
BB (2,770)

Blinds: 15/30

Pre-Flop: (45, 2 players) Hero is SB 2:heart: 5:heart:
Hero raises to 60, BB calls 30

Flop: Q:heart: 2:diamond: 2:club: (120, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 60, BB calls 60

Turn: 8:club: (240, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 120, BB raises to 345, Hero raises to 570, BB calls 225

River: 4:heart: (1,380, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero goes all-in 2,540, BB goes all-in 2,080

Final Pot: 6,000
BB shows
Q:spade: 3:spade:
Hero shows three of a kind, Twos
2:heart: 5:heart:

Hero wins 6,000 (net +2,770)

BB lost 2,770
 
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B

baudib1

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some thoughts on these cuz I liked playing this guy a lot

1. He probably thinks I'm a little spewy by this point but we have not done a ton of 4/5-bet bluffing on the flop. He knows I don't slowplay much but he probably won't give me much credit for this flop line. I need to tell a more convincing story by "slowplaying" the nuts and letting him spew on turn. Yeti yeti FTW, no reason for him to 4-bet this flop with a real hand. On turn I have outs! to beat 7x, plan is to shove all rivers that don't contain a face card (I think most of his range is 7x/K-high/Q-high).

Also need to show or showdown somehow so he knows I can have total complete air here. Plan is to set him up for major spazzing when I have it and take this line again.

2. My range destroys him here so to hell with actual hand strength. He almost never has a pp or Ax in this spot (would 3-b pre). I really really wanted to shove here but I was afraid of hero call by K-high and some random Jx that got there so fk, give up, the board beats most of his range. He types in chat "nh"

3. The payoff for hand 1; like hand 2, I let time run down to make it look like a big decision before shoving.
 
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