how would u play this?

[BlueNowhere]

You mean folding to the shove? Have you given any reasons as to why folding to the big stacked super TAG is the wrong move? Turns out it was the right move if he has KK. If he really is a super TAG, I don't see him not having pockets, it might be JJ or QQ, but he is still ahead. OP is sitting decent it sounds like, in that spot I think your tourney life is worth protecting, especially if there are only 12 people and he considers some of them to be short stacks. Let some more short stacks go out instead of risking your whole stack knowing you are behind.

OP, congrats on making $777 last month. Did you do it all from MTT's?

Lol at justifying play based on what he had. Heres me playing against peoples ranges when I could just be playing against the exact hand they hold. Where have you got super tag from anyway? The fact he hasn't been all in off a most likely lol small sample size.

 

[JusSumguy]

snap call, though I wouldn't be surprised to be beat here.

I don't understand this. Why call then? Because the numbers say so?

Geesh... if the numbers said to jump off a bridge...?


:icon_salu

 

[doomasiggy]

all the more reason to respect a big stacks all-in raise; could be a while before he's this deep again.

No. The way to earn a big stack is to get it in profitably. Not to mention that our 25bb only lasts until the blind levels get bigger.

You mean folding to the shove? Have you given any reasons as to why folding to the big stacked super TAG is the wrong move? Turns out it was the right move if he has KK. If he really is a super TAG, I don't see him not having pockets, it might be JJ or QQ, but he is still ahead.

Or AQs, which he might think is worth it because the limp makes us look weak. And if he's got JJ, QQ, or TT we're flipping; and we shouldn't be afraid to flip unless we're massive and literally on the FT bubble.

I don't understand this. Why call then? Because the numbers say so?

Geesh... if the numbers said to jump off a bridge...?

lol, I don't think there are any numbers that say to jump off a bridge.

I think I should clarify. There are situations when I'm surprised I haven't gotten it in with the best hand. Let's say I'm holding AKs on the bb with 10-15bb, sb, button and co have stacks, MP and UTG+1 have around 20bb. Everyone limps round to the bb. I shove and get called by button and cutoff, then see that the button and co limped pre with AA and QQ respectively. That would be a situation where I was suprised not to have the best hand, because for the button or the cutoff not to shove in that spot is really weird, since they're almost always getting called just cause of how short stacked they are. Here, I wouldn't be surprised to see KK, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see hands worse than KK either.

 

[Reptar7]

Lol at justifying play based on what he had. Heres me playing against peoples ranges when I could just be playing against the exact hand they hold. Where have you got super tag from anyway? The fact he hasn't been all in off a most likely lol small sample size.

Lol, you must have quoted me like right before I finished editing my post to say I don't really have enough info. I really don't know enough to justify folding it, but lets just say I am willing to fold AK in that position if I feel the other player likely has me beat and/or I can get to a higher placing by not playing the hand. There also would be situations exactly like this where I would shove it preflop, or call the all in. I just don't have enough info. I would guess the difference between 12th and 8th in a 750 GTD is quite a bit right? Like $20 or more? I would fold it for a just about guaranteed $20 bump.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Lol, you must have quoted me like right before I finished editing my post to say I don't really have enough info. I really don't know enough to justify folding it, but lets just say I am willing to fold AK in that position if I feel the other player likely has me beat and/or I can get to a higher placing by not playing the hand. There also would be situations exactly like this where I would shove it preflop, or call the all in. I just don't have enough info. I would guess the difference between 12th and 8th in a 750 GTD is quite a bit right? Like $20 or more? I would fold it for a just about guaranteed $20 bump.

$20 extra is pointless. The money is locked up at the very top.

 

[Reptar7]

$20 extra is pointless. The money is locked up at the very top.

Yeah, but $20 is a decent amount of money to just throw away or flip for, at least to me. Looking at the situation described and only knowing that the guy hasn't gone all in before, do you think he would be shoving AQ or worse? Looking at the situation, I just immediately think he has pockets, probably 99+. I might be missing info that is important though.

Do you go all in with AK the majority of the time that you get it in tournaments?
What if I told you for sure that the guy had JJ. Would you call with AK?
What is the range that you are putting him on? I just think his range beats AK.

 

[momfight]

Is the big stack going to spew half of his stack with anything less than pocket AA, KK, or QQ? No.

The money is bias to the top 2 spots, there no reason to call this its completely reckless, especially as we're itm and have a shot at the tournament. 25bbs is a great re-steal size stack. Why bother calling when you can raise and get added FE?

 

[BlueNowhere]

Can I just clear up whether I am talking to winning players here because folding seems is a pretty fundamental mistake? Raise/fold is pretty disgusting advice. If you don't believe me go post this question on 2p2 at any BI level (same answer for all) and everyone will say raise/gii, not close. Sorry if it looks like I'm being harsh here (have been told my conduct with reference to conveying points could be better) but raise/fold is not an option. Limp/fold is not an option. Open fold is not an option. This isn't a tricky spot. The 1st response should've brought a close to this thread, the following 9 only confirmed the 1st to be correct, this shouldn't have turned into a 30 reply thread where discussion is still ongoing as there is nothing to discuss.


Honestly raise/gii and it's not close. His range is not 99+. Even worse is the estimate of QQ+

 

[JusSumguy]

I agree Blue. The PF raise was the right move. But he didn't and now he's faced with a push from a nit.

That's kinda where the conversation has gone.


:icon_salu

 

[duggs]

I agree Blue. The PF raise was the right move. But he didn't and now he's faced with a push from a nit.

That's kinda where the conversation has gone.


:icon_salu

so called 'nit' shoving over limper def does it wider than he does over a raise, which makes it even easier to call off,
OP ran into the absolute top of villains range, it happens but it isnt grounds for a fold pre

 

[Arjonius]

In a $750 gtd, the entire prize pool isn't enough to justify folding to a shove whether you limped or or bet out originally. It's waaay too defensive.

It begs the question as to how small the shove has to be in order to call. And taking that another step, is there enough difference is the shove ranges of the smaller stacks compared to the big stack's range to justify calling the former but not the latter? Without creating an unlikely scenario, it seems pretty unlikely.

 

[Poker Orifice]

You are going to have a hard time convincing any one you are right. They do not care about results here. They do not care that you are 1 away from the money. They do not care if you have enough chips to blind out in second place. They take no other factors in consideration here but plus minus equity value. They do not care if you are the big stack if the numbers say you have 20 BB's. They do not care that 8 other players will automatically be forced all in next hand Guaranteeing you third place at worst if you fold. They do not care.........................

And I was thinking you were actually learning stuff on here .... sigh

 

[calicard]

And I was thinking you were actually learning stuff on here .... sigh

I am learning stuff, Lots of stuff.

 

[jonny2323]

I would have folded AK is good but not worth that much at the time you could have easily folded and made more money

 

[BlueNowhere]

I would have folded AK is good but not worth that much at the time you could have easily folded and made more money

Read the rest of the thread. Folding is bad. I don't know how many times it can be repeated.

 

[momfight]

Calling here is a poker robot move. Folding is the correct move. I love how these people are still trying to justify calling all-in even though the guy had KK.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

..really?

who limp folds AK, ever?

yeah he had KK, it happens but folding AK with a 20bb stack is lolbad.

don't see why people are justifying it, he can have way worse.. we could even have him dominated in spots.

also, people on here need to accept that flips are necessary.

'I would have folded because if he has a pair we're 50/50' flipping to get a 40bb stack almost at the final table is a risk you should be willing to take imo.

fold, really.. lol.

 

[momfight]

who limp folds AK, ever?

I don't think anyone suggested that but....people who dont want to go out of a tournament on the bubble. People who have alot of chips at the final table and get re-raised all in when there's 2 or 3 short stacks in shove or fold mode. It happens a lot in tournaments. Depends if you're playing poker to win money or playing poker to maintain + EV on every move. I'm pretty sure he has 25 bb.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

maintaining +ev on every move is making money.

THATS THE POINT.

if you don't want to bubble, fold AK.

but this isn't the bubble?

stacking off against villains range which we do ok against in this spot, giving ourselves the chance to have a big stack going into the final table is the best move. AINEC.

Calling here is a poker robot move. Folding is the correct move. I love how these people are still trying to justify calling all-in even though the guy had KK.

you said it.

lol at how results oriented that statement is.

pretty sure 2.5k x 20 = 50k = his stack..

so cliffs.. -

wrong
wrong
wrong

get where I'm going with this?

 

[momfight]

Stop moving the goal posts. You just said no one limps in with AK and folds ever, then you go and contradict yourself.

Maintaining +EV is not always making money, it can lose you money. Like the cliche of the guy at wsop getting dealt AA on the first hand. It doesn't factor in if this guy will ever be in that position again and the fact that he paid 10k to get there.

If you are on the cusp of the final table and getting a big payout, EV is just part of the equation.

He had KK so calling is wrong and is -ve EV.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

I give up.

out before mod tells me to stop giving the right advice.

'he had KK so calling with AK was wrong'

good luck in the future.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I give up.

out before mod tells me to stop giving the right advice.

'he had KK so calling with AK was wrong'

good luck in the future.

Pretty much why I left this thread a while ago. Threats of bans (not from this thread but from others) whilst peope don't even get a warning for giving horrible advice.

Also lol at AA example. Ivey in snap calling an AI with AA

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

Pretty much why I left this thread a while ago. Threats of bans (not from this thread but from others) whilst peope don't even get a warning for giving horrible advice.

Also lol at AA example. Ivey in snap calling an AI with AA

last reply then i'm done.

pretty much why I might just stop posting period.

I mean I'm trying my best to help out in general, posting my own questions and not answering others is pretty shitty imo.

but whatever, **** it.

2nl regs gonna reg.

 

[momfight]

Pretty much why I left this thread a while ago. Threats of bans (not from this thread but from others) whilst peope don't even get a warning for giving horrible advice.

Also lol at AA example. Ivey in snap calling an AI with AA

How many MTTs have you won exactly?

 

[BlueNowhere]

How many MTTs have you won exactly?

Won 1, not really sure what relevance is mind.