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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
KK is almost always so far ahead of a shoving range, thats its a profitable call, even when chips won are less valuable than chips lost. And often the chip leader will be shoving wider than other players near the bubble. So we should not just call. We should be extremely happy, he showed on us, and beat him into the pot. This is a great opportunity for us to build a big stack and make a run for the final table, and if we bust, then we just play the next one.
CDNMAN 42
Legend
Platinum Level
Bubble Bust
I do agree with your logic I mean KK is powerful but then the question arises in the same situ with QQ or JJ ?? where do we draw the line? Recently in three SitNGo tournaments on PS I have been in this situation either on the Bubble or Bubble+1 and in all three I got QQ and I was about mid stack size and yes the chip leader jammed and in all three my QQ lost to lesser pairs...
I do agree with your logic I mean KK is powerful but then the question arises in the same situ with QQ or JJ ?? where do we draw the line? Recently in three SitNGo tournaments on PS I have been in this situation either on the Bubble or Bubble+1 and in all three I got QQ and I was about mid stack size and yes the chip leader jammed and in all three my QQ lost to lesser pairs...
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I do agree with your logic I mean KK is powerful but then the question arises in the same situ with QQ or JJ ?? where do we draw the line? Recently in three SitNGo tournaments on PS I have been in this situation either on the Bubble or Bubble+1 and in all three I got QQ and I was about mid stack size and yes the chip leader jammed and in all three my QQ lost to lesser pairs...
Obviously the lower our pair, the more often we should consider folding, but if you got it in against a worse hand and lost, then there is very little reason to think, folding would have been better. A post like this usually mean, that OP is way to obsessed with min-cashing and dont have a sound long term view on MTTs. Yes it sucks to bubble, nobody loves that, but its really not that important at all
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Ac3 Meister
Rock Star
Bronze Level
It's a tricky one. In the scenario when I have done a read or two on him, and i feel he might be bluffing to push me and steal some blinds , I woul definetlt try and talk him down to gain some information.Only then would i make my decision. So it s not quite a short answer this one. You really need to analize everything. I for one wouldnt fold kk so easy.
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BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch
Visionary
Bronze Level
If you don't care then go all in and hope that one of the big stacks with an Ace x doesn't call and bust you or fold and take your money and move on.
Look up what Moshman says in his SNG book about situations like that. You can get it a used copy delivered to your house if you live in the states for like $5-10.
Look up what Moshman says in his SNG book about situations like that. You can get it a used copy delivered to your house if you live in the states for like $5-10.
ninjareal
Legend
Bronze Level
hi all , like some have said above it depends on a few factors , how big is the game, do you have any reads on the rival ?
1st off , I'd fold if it's a big mtt , the reason is I have a policy on big mtt and getting itm , fold even AA if close to the bubble , I once entered a $20 buyin satty , and was very close to the bubble and unfortunately very close to bottom of the field too , bottom 8 I think, and then I got AA ( i had said few hands before that if I got it I would fold it) and 3bet the table big stack preflop and he put me allin , he had J7 or KJ , flopped J and rivered 2pair and just like that I was out, I stayed watching and seems that after say 8 mins the bubble burst..... perhaps by folding I would have made it , and all got same ticket...
of course satellite mtt are a bit different due to payout implications , 1st and last payouts are the same .
secondly it also depends on your chip stack, given that you were a medium stack and could have folded to itm , I'd probably do that in a big mtt... especially within 10 players till itm , it is a conservative approach, but then depends whether you want to gamble or not ... I prefer cashing , then risk after that.
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also if you have no reads at all on rival , just fold , quite a lot players have a habit of simply jamming with AA right off the bat , so an easy fold if you really want to progress, even KK vs A2s is basically 50/50 .. why risk it on the bubble ?
1st off , I'd fold if it's a big mtt , the reason is I have a policy on big mtt and getting itm , fold even AA if close to the bubble , I once entered a $20 buyin satty , and was very close to the bubble and unfortunately very close to bottom of the field too , bottom 8 I think, and then I got AA ( i had said few hands before that if I got it I would fold it) and 3bet the table big stack preflop and he put me allin , he had J7 or KJ , flopped J and rivered 2pair and just like that I was out, I stayed watching and seems that after say 8 mins the bubble burst..... perhaps by folding I would have made it , and all got same ticket...
of course satellite mtt are a bit different due to payout implications , 1st and last payouts are the same .
secondly it also depends on your chip stack, given that you were a medium stack and could have folded to itm , I'd probably do that in a big mtt... especially within 10 players till itm , it is a conservative approach, but then depends whether you want to gamble or not ... I prefer cashing , then risk after that
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also if you have no reads at all on rival , just fold , quite a lot players have a habit of simply jamming with AA right off the bat , so an easy fold if you really want to progress, even KK vs A2s is basically 50/50 .. why risk it on the bubble ?
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Vallet
Legend
Platinum Level
Many chipleaders will push a wide range of hands. They won't let you play your game calmly and will put pressure on you. Therefore, you need to cool the chipleader with a cold shower and put it in place. KK is the perfect hand for this. Now let him sit and fold 90% of his hands on the bubble.
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StressMit
Rock Star
Silver Level
I would just check or call & if you know the big stack is trying to shove in to get players to fold you can check raise the big stack & if he or she has a weak hand they will probably fold. Reading the players will tell you what to do.
nuttea
Visionary
Bronze Level
Medium stack (up to 50 blinds) Participants with this many chips should choose the most passive lines, playing mainly check / fold. You should not get involved in the fight against opponents with similar stacks or chip leaders. Sometimes you can put pressure on opponents with a small number of chips. The main tactic is to play carefully with steals in the right situations with the goal of keeping a comfortable stack until the ITM hits.
rock0001
Legend
Bronze Level
only if its a satellite... i might even fold aces if there are many players with a lower stack than mine, otherwise i wouldn't fold kings against only 1 all in unless im playing the sunday million or a high buy in tournament, but only if the player who shoves all in is a tight player because i dont see myself folding kings against a loose player who raises and shoves with a wide ranges of hands.
roger perkins
Visionary
Bronze Level
If it is a satellite where everyone gets the same pay yes I fold on the bubble. If it is a regular MTT then I'm looking to make the big money and unless I am one of the top 3 or 4 stacks I'm looking to chip up for my final run so preflop I would never fold KK. This just happened to me last week and I lost to AA.
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plan
Enthusiast
Silver Level
If it's a satellite and there are shorter stacks, it's an easy fold. But in a regular tournament, I'll never throw KK preflop.What else to play? Although if it's a very big tournament and the opponent is a very tight player, I'll consider a possible fold.
venycyos
Legend
Bronze Level
I believe I just wouldn't pay if it was a satellite. That is, everyone who passes the bubble gets the same prize. These chips that we will now win with our kk will be very important for the sequence of the game and will give us a lot of chance to fight for prizes that are really worth.
najisami
Legend
Loyaler
As it's been said above, we know that a chip leader would raise or shove very wide, especially at bubble time to put pressure. You wake up with KK or even AA, a delight under different circumstances, but a dilemma when your tournament life is threatened.
I think your stack size should dictate your action here, probably more than some other important factors. I you are really short and might not even make the money, then you obviously have no choice but call (and pray, lol), but if you have a healthy stack, your best action is to wait for a better spot as you still could lose to 45o, 9To, JQo....
I think your stack size should dictate your action here, probably more than some other important factors. I you are really short and might not even make the money, then you obviously have no choice but call (and pray, lol), but if you have a healthy stack, your best action is to wait for a better spot as you still could lose to 45o, 9To, JQo....
mariale_1990
Legend
Platinum Level
I think about it, but I think that if I would fold, it is that every move has happened to me right on the bubble and I prefer to avoid it, I prefer to insure and then continue playing as I think is convenient, many people I think will say: no, you have to risk, or you should do what the play says, but in these cases it is the decision of each person and we should not be guided only by what someone says
danoscar
Legend
Bronze Level
Too many times that ace shows up on the flop and the KK pair plays roto-rooter. I can not tell you how many times the poker software setsup the lesser bank with KK and gives another AA or Ax. The flop renders an ace and there you go. Been there done that.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Personally i think I need to learn to fold pocket kings and any time they show up as they just break my heart most of the time.
OK sarcasm aside, I am not folding pocket king's pre flop on the bubble unless I have a really sick read and sure the other player has it. It was not on the bubble but one time I did fold pre with pocked aces. If you knew the player and the fact the 4 bet jammed on me and even all these many years later I still cant recall any other time this player 3bet and now there 4 betting me it was a tough sick fold. FYI, she did show and I was correct.
OK sarcasm aside, I am not folding pocket king's pre flop on the bubble unless I have a really sick read and sure the other player has it. It was not on the bubble but one time I did fold pre with pocked aces. If you knew the player and the fact the 4 bet jammed on me and even all these many years later I still cant recall any other time this player 3bet and now there 4 betting me it was a tough sick fold. FYI, she did show and I was correct.