Final table deal making

[Stringy]

if you're drained and don't mind getting potentially less than you could have then may aswell make the deal

 

[Was1969]

I am against any deals. At the final table, the opponents are also tired, some of them are already waiting for a deal and they are very close to making mistakes, here it is very important to concentrate and catch them, to take the last step towards the goal. Catching a tired opponent is one of the goals of poker.

 

[narc]

I usually agree and split the prize evenly at the final table, ie, the shortest finalists win evenly. I don't see a problem with that, in fact I see an advantage.

 

[Frankyy97]

If it's a high stakes tournament i want to make a deal because I dont want to risk so much money. On a low stakes tournament it depends on my chips stake and how good my oppenents are.

 

[Leandro6803]

Final table trading, I think is a very profitable system to increase winnings in the long term, sometimes the prize associated with a bad beat is bad for some players even mentally.

 

[pavel1111111]

the opinion is that if you reach the last 4-5 players and everyone agrees, it would be advisable to accept the understanding and the fewer the better

 

[Matt Vaughan]

As with most things in poker, the answer is "it depends" haha.

In all seriousness though deal-making has no right and wrong answers because it's entirely dependent on YOU:

Your goals
The utility of the money to you
Whether you care about final table experience

For me personally, as someone who takes tournament poker very seriously, the last point will usually outweigh the second, because my goals are to become as good as I can at MTT poker, and that means mastering a variety of final table spots, many of which will really only become easier with experience.

Most people will opt for chops even when the money is relatively small and never end up preparing for the times when they maybe satellite into and make a deep run in a big event, where maybe a strong player is shooting down every deal. Or playing a wsop event live where they don't allow deals.

To me the experience has always been the most valuable, but there have also been spots in my career where making a deal would have been really big for me. Like 10's of thousands in real dollars, which could have moved the needle quite a bit for me at the time, and because of ego and other reasons I declined deals, etc.

If you ever ARE going to start looking at a deal though, I use an ICM calculator as my starting point, and then go from there.

 

[legend309]

As with most things in poker, the answer is "it depends" haha.

In all seriousness though deal-making has no right and wrong answers because it's entirely dependent on YOU:

Your goals
The utility of the money to you
Whether you care about final table experience

For me personally, as someone who takes tournament poker very seriously, the last point will usually outweigh the second, because my goals are to become as good as I can at MTT poker, and that means mastering a variety of final table spots, many of which will really only become easier with experience.

Most people will opt for chops even when the money is relatively small and never end up preparing for the times when they maybe satellite into and make a deep run in a big event, where maybe a strong player is shooting down every deal. Or playing a WSOP event live where they don't allow deals.

To me the experience has always been the most valuable, but there have also been spots in my career where making a deal would have been really big for me. Like 10's of thousands in real dollars, which could have moved the needle quite a bit for me at the time, and because of ego and other reasons I declined deals, etc.

If you ever ARE going to start looking at a deal though, I use an ICM calculator as my starting point, and then go from there.

Thanks for the reply, I'll look into this icm calculator suggestion

 

[TeUnit]

I dont usually like to make deals, but if its my last game of the session, or I could use the screen space for another better game, or if I dont feel I have an edge then I will probably make an icm deal.

 

[NightStalker]

And don't make deals at FT.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Here's the parameters where chops are a good thing:

• Stacks are nearly the same (e.g. within 1 typical pot size of each other)
• Average stacks are below ~18bb

The reason for the 2nd one is that now everyone is in "shove or fold" mode... often to be decided with flips. So ask yourself, is the difference between 1st place money and Nth place money worth putting on a coin flip?

An example prize pool might be:

1. $1400
2. $900
3. $600
4. $420
5. $300

If those 5 remain, the outcome of a flip might put you in first or bust you out for $300. If all the stacks were equal, each place would get $724—or midway between 2nd and 3rd. So what are the odds in the situation of you finishing 1st or 2nd place and doing better than that?

Now a "chip chop" (or ICM chop) actually pays people proportionally by the amount of chips they have left so that washes out the need for "we are almost even". It's more beneficial if there is an obvious chip leader or an obvious person who is about to bust.

Either way, it cuts time off. And we all know how long the final table stuff can go.

That said, I've done quite a few of them. Even just in the past few months. At Aria, we did a 3 way where we were pretty much even but we did a chip chop anyway. The payouts were:

1. $2,808
2. $2,632
3. $2,334

So you see there was less than $500 difference there. We were pretty close in stacks.

I did one at my Horseshoe in May where we chopped it evenly but I took "1st" for reporting purposes because I had a few more chips than she did. We were tired and hungry. Worth it.

As with most things in poker, the answer is "it depends" haha.

In all seriousness though deal-making has no right and wrong answers because it's entirely dependent on YOU:

Your goals
The utility of the money to you
Whether you care about final table experience

For me personally, as someone who takes tournament poker very seriously, the last point will usually outweigh the second, because my goals are to become as good as I can at MTT poker, and that means mastering a variety of final table spots, many of which will really only become easier with experience.

Most people will opt for chops even when the money is relatively small and never end up preparing for the times when they maybe satellite into and make a deep run in a big event, where maybe a strong player is shooting down every deal. Or playing a WSOP event live where they don't allow deals.

To me the experience has always been the most valuable, but there have also been spots in my career where making a deal would have been really big for me. Like 10's of thousands in real dollars, which could have moved the needle quite a bit for me at the time, and because of ego and other reasons I declined deals, etc.

If you ever ARE going to start looking at a deal though, I use an ICM calculator as my starting point, and then go from there.

These comments were very helpful. Thanks!

 

[hilary antonik filho]

I've already made some negotiations, one of them happened recently in the cc freeroll, was first and was already tired, I accepted, but we had to continue and I ended up winning, So I prefer to drag for much longer, but every decision is yours

 

[paddyswarrior]

Depending on the situation and unless it's agreed on an even split between remaining players, then I would rather stick it out seeing as I got that far.

 

[SPTAussieAPLplayer]

I'm open minded when it comes to chops/deals.

Happy to do them when its relatively fair ie equal chip stacks and its low stakes. The higher the stakes then the more I think about value for me.

Was asked to do a 5 way deal when I was big chip leader . I said ICM or no. I waited till it got to 3 handed before I agreed. If its for last 2 and its an even money chop and you are ''playing for the Trophy'' then yeah lets split the money. Cant buy chips with trophies.

Dont be bullied into making an unfair deal. I have seen an 8 way chop proposed on FT where the low stack table captain/bully wanted a deal which would have increased his potential pay from $550 to $3000 and only 1 person held out . ie always be wary of who is making the deal and why.

 

[PatriceM915]

Hello a good one a deal depends on the number of player blinds and the number of people remaining

Hello good deal depends on the player's number of blinds and the number of people remaining

But a deal is always better than to regret it later because of the risk.

 

[tony2521]

To make a deal at the final table you have to consider several factors.
The time you have been playing, your physical state and state of mind, the time you have available, your stacks of chips, the money to be distributed.
This set of things can lead you to make a decision about whether to make a deal or not, but not whenever you want to make a deal, it can be done since everyone must agree to do it.

 

[dallam]

If the money is tempting (significant higher than the buy-in), or we are way too deep to end it in acceptable time or there's no skill gap between us, I'm often making a deal. There are two type of deals: one when you making the same prize, the other is divided up based on your actual stacks. Of course both can be used in specific situations.

 

[10gerka]

It will depend on many things when you want to make a deal at a final table, first, if you see that at the final table there are recreational players you will not want to make a deal ps you will lose a lot of value, second, if you are short in chips you will want to, but it also depends if you like what you get for your stack of chips, always the biggest prizes are in the top positions.

 

[77ecos]

I don't like making a deal because I have an advantage in terms of having a lot of patience and I think that in those instances it is essential and many tend to get desperate. I only remember having made a deal because I was already very sleepy and there were 3 of us with a similar stake

 

[Joselmb31]

Impossible, I play to go for everything.

 

[lauestla]

I never made a deal. But I am not against it. It depends on the players remaining, the stacks and... how much I am tired.

 

[Dimidrol2]

There are tournaments where there are no deals, I have never made deals, money is a priority, but I think everything is still ahead. Here I think by playing for more than 6 hours and with large stacks, you can play for a very long time and logically save time despite the money.

 

[juan1579]

I only deal at the final table if I'm below average in chips

 

[Rui Ferreira]

Hi everyone. I've had some great success as of late in mtts. Tonight was my first time doing a final table deal making... I felt so lost.. does anyone have experience and tips for how to do the right deal or maybe should you just opt out of final table deal making? Can't wait to hear your replies.. thanks

Personally, I always make an agreement with 3 players, I don't see a problem, but I'm never the first to call, only if the opponents call for an agreement, but I have no difficulty in making an agreement, no problem for me.

 

[odonob]

Have never seen it done, but I mostly play freerolls, so would come into play more with big money games I would think.