Dealing with early all-ins

[Grebbsy]

Update: just been booted out of another microstakes tournament. Same story as before. This time I kept stats.

I saw 13 hands.

Of those, 9 saw an all-in pre-flop.

After 12 hands and 8 all-ins none of which I had the cards to call, I was down to three BBs. Meantime Shovey McShovington who contributed the majority of those all-ins was running away with the table on 20+ BBs.

All the advice says that you should play tight at a loose table, but it's paying me no dividends at all.

(FWIW, I got busted out when I shoved on AQs. This happens and I'm not grousing about that particular hand. Just the constant shove-shove-shove style of play that seems to be taking over in microstakes tourneys in the last month or two.)

 

[RiverOfDreamz]

In 13 hands you were down to 3 BB? What type of tournament are you playing, a superturbo shortstack? Or are you raising, reraising, or calling multiple raises before a person goes all-in? Because 13 hands is not much to be blinded all the way down to 3 big-blinds, so I'm kinda confused on the story.

 

[SANDYHOOKER KY]

dont assume that higher levels are free from donkers. ive played in several 109.00 buyin turnys,and lo and behold i saw some really ignorant plays made by some of the supposedly top players.the play is considerably tighter than a 5 dollar turny,but even at that buy-in there are nuts.there is only one way to play against the fool who shoves every hand,simply play your best,dont change anything,if the fool beats you when your in good, so be it.if your having a cold spell,sit tight and weather it out.maybe another player will take the turkey out.a very good way to avoid the shove-maniac and also win good returns for the buy-in is to play in a fixed limit or pot limit turny,such as the 2.20 seven card stud turnys with an average field of 30-60 players.or the 3.30 stud,stud hi-lo,omaha, and the 2.20 2-7 triple draw turnys. carbon has a slew of them running all the time.pick the game of your choice,look at the field size,and if the field is under 50 players,give it a shot.i have won as much as 161.31 for a buck ten.no re-buys either.and that was 5th place. i must add,that particular turny had a re-buy and add-on,and thats why so much was in the payout. many players often overlook those smaller field 1.10-3.30 buy-in turnys,but the roi is very lucrative.

 

[baudib1]

get a big stack early or bust. gg.


don't listen to advice like "don't stack 99 early" because early is relative and probably meaningless. stack off with Q9o if you have good equity and pot odds vs. someone's shoving range.

if you don't like losing a lot, going long stretches without any wins, being continuously frustrated at results, aren't willing to stick it in bad once in a while, don't play MTTs.

 

[TEG2300]

After 12 hands and 8 all-ins none of which I had the cards to call, I was down to three BBs.

Okay now I get it you are playing hyper turbos aren't you? That is the only thing that makes this statement above make any sense.
These are shove fold tourneys that is what the starting stacks and blind structure dictate. If you want to play a normal game of poker choose a different format. IMHO

 

[Grebbsy]

Okay now I get it you are playing hyper turbos aren't you? That is the only thing that makes this statement above make any sense.
These are shove fold tourneys that is what the starting stacks and blind structure dictate. If you want to play a normal game of poker choose a different format. IMHO

Trouble is that other formats cost more and my current bankroll is microscopic! Perhaps I ought to look into some other sites where they have more variety in the bargai-basement games on offer. (Recommendations?)

 

[TeUnit]

it frustrating, and difficult to believe sometimes- but you want this sort of play

try to figure out the villians range and abuse them, or nut peddle or some combo of both

 

[lpmduarte]

EV is expected value. you can read this article https://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-expected-value.php or just google it the google is your friend

 

[Grebbsy]

try to figure out the villians range and abuse them, or nut peddle or some combo of both

Er... nut peddle?

 

[fasteddee74]

I feel like the Micros have a higher variance to them than lo,mid and high stakes. My only suggestion is to put in more volume to overcome the variance. If you are playing 5-10 mtt's a session try playing 10-20 etc.

 

[doomasiggy]

However once he has every one stacked at the table (assuming he is not a more skilled player than the rest) it might be the right play for him to eliminate all post flop play and take the skill out of the game.

Basically everything in this is wrong.

I feel like the Micros have a higher variance to them than lo,mid and high stakes. My only suggestion is to put in more volume to overcome the variance. If you are playing 5-10 mtt's a session try playing 10-20 etc.

They don't.

 

[bnasp2]

Calling all-in should be much more tight then going all-in as first.
Its always about EV, and when calling, there is no fold equity.
You should be quite sure you are beating them. On low limits I would call with AA,KK. If there is some loose player (or idiot), then I would add AK,QQ,JJ and on really rare you could add AQ (but it should be really some loose player and some extra chips in the pot).

 

[baudib1]

I feel like the Micros have a higher variance to them than lo,mid and high stakes.

1. no
2. you act like variance is a bad thing

 

[aero87]

In early stages against crazy all in shovers its best to just wait for AA or KK.

 

[DeadlyAim]

I agree w/ what vinylspiros is saying so copy and paste... Your looking at this the wrong way... this is a good thing.

If someone is a calling station and raising every other hand odds are they got 10J, QJ at best if there stupid enough... I wish going allin with J2, 86 then try to get an isolation pot with them. U want them to scare everyone else out who isn't playing crap.

But let's say you get 10s or above treat them like Aces with a donk like this especially if you notice a tendency to call 98765432 any combination of this cards. If he calls J10, QJ, K8 stuff be more weary with the 10s but treat JJ like Aces. Smilarly KQ is like AK.

I regularly destroy people like this personally I like calling a lot or at least when I was a rookie... so I can smell them a mile away. But you got to be patient... I try not to call allins unless I'm convince he is an idiot by going allin 106, J5 before or I got AK, KK, AA anything else I tread lightly.

Unless he is a donk... now if u got 3 donks at the table... lol... yeah unfortunately they can crack AA... if u decide to take em all out at once. I think the play you alluded to was a miss read... hell QQ is not a junk hand. That is just ultimate bad luck never get mad at yourself if you bet big and lose AA... 80%+ of da time ur gonna be sitting pretty.

 

[jerudcopus]

Its poker sometimes you just need to listen to Kenny Rogers the gambler

 

[LuckyBundy13]

What types of tournaments are you playing where you constantly see all ins early? I would have to assume freerolls. Maybe you're playing too tight? I play a lot of small stakes rebuys. The way I deal w/ it, I just let the monkeys knock each other out, unless I have a hand. Then it's only 1 monkey I have deal with. This monkey keeps shoving like a tard, then I will wait for a hand. DO NOT GET BELOW THE STRUCTURE. It's very important you don't get low waiting for hands. If I get it in good and lose, oh well...on to the next one.

 

[Grebbsy]

I'm playing microstakes because it's all I can really afford. (I've heard all the horrible warnings about playing above your financial level.)

What does "get below the structure" mean here? And how can I simultaneously "let the monkeys knock each other out" and "don't get low waiting for hands?"

 

[Grebbsy]

And still it continues. Sure, call all in on 76s, first hand. You're bound to hit a straight and take out anyone who's been enough of a donk to call you with KK.

 

[likips]

You said right Miccro MTTs = Bingo hall
This gonna happened alaways, so there is not big strategy for micro mtts...

I don't care whether players like them never win, what matters to me is that I never win!

This exact scenario has happened twice more in the last two days. Both times I've sat there grimly waiting for two decent cards while Shovey McShovington has been rampaging all over the table. Both times I've finally called him, both times I've lost (99 against K7 when he hit both pairs, KK against Q8 when he actually flopped a goddamn full house...)

The trouble is that adopting this route, by the time I call, he generally has three to four times more chips than me and so he can afford to call my all-in with any old rubbish on the off-chance that he'll outdraw me on the flop. Even if I do catch him with his pants down he'll still have at least twice my stack.

I've wondered whether I ought to simply join the "go all in on the first hand no matter what your cards are" party, but the thought sticks in my throat. If I wanted to play bingo I'd go to a bingo hall, capische?

 

[doomasiggy]

You said right Miccro MTTs = Bingo hall
This gonna happened alaways, so there is not big strategy for micro mtts...

They really aren't, and there is strategy for micro mtts.

 

[Lucothefish]

^^ True, I guarantee I can hold a bigger ROI at the lower buyins than the higher ones over a decent sample.

Hell, the $1 MTTs and below I doubt I could run bad enough over any sample of 100 or more. Sure, the fish win sometimes but they're also really, really bad.

Forget about winning, focus on learning and improving. The former is a by-product of the latter.

 

[RiverOfDreamz]

An interesting exercise is to take all of your bust hands and actually calculate your EV. So many times people will blame getting knocked out on variance, when in fact they didn't have an edge when they put the chips in the middle.

 

[vinylspiros]

we all have the same problem but we doing alright