Chopping in tournaments and dealing with "pesterers"

[F4STFORW4RD]

It wasn't meant to be constructive advice, I realsied constructuve advice was pointless when calicard insisted that you should play to win despite that being the worst advice possible and even having it pointed out to him.

I can understand where you're coming from, and the reason for your frustration.

 

[KerouacsDog]

The point is that people come here looking for constructive advice, PO, not to be insulted. Why would they come here in the first place, if they didn't want to learn? You have visited a lot of poker forums over the years, and so have I. The big difference with CC is that it's a friendly forum, and I would like it to stay that way. None taken, and me too.There was a at the end of my comment, btw.

good point.
and FF, sorry for bolded, I didnt see the at the end, my bad(been awake 28 hours now, so lagging a bit) merry xmas anyway ff.

 

[KerouacsDog]

That word is used much too often on here.I stated my opinion, only to be called a moron. If you really want to call other members moron's you should really check what you write first. Someone that is so free to call someone else a moron should at least be able to spell. Again just my opinion.
And once again I play to win.

moron is a horrible word, and was uncalled for, but luckjilly I dont see it used too often at CC, we are a friendly site, as FF stated, compared to many others, 2p2 anyone????

 

[BlueNowhere]

They might be epic quotes KD, but it still doesn't necessarily imply that declining a chop in those circumstances is +EV. A lot of those quotes are from politicians, and we know how reliable their promises are...

EDIT: If you think using words like moronic and idiotic helps players improve their game, BlueNowhere, then you have a lot to learn about people.

I originally stated anyone who rejected the chop would be an idiot. calicard then entered the fray saying he would go for the win. I then told him why we take the chop and only a moron would turn it down. He then says he would turn it down anyway which would imply he was a moron. He then confirmed that with his 'winning mentality' speech. I posted a perfectly reasonable comment which told the OP what the reason for dealing would be and then calicard decides to come in and give advice that can in no way be construed as constructive.

 

[Poker Orifice]

'moronic' < meant to describe the action (not as a label of said person).

Just as in > if other two players offered to even chop while sitting with 20-25bb when one player was sitting with 4-5bb's is also 'moronic'

Didn't say cali is a moron at all.
Perhaps 'misguided' but with good intentions maybe.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

moron is a horrible word, and was uncalled for, but luckjilly I dont see it used too often at CC, we are a friendly site, as FF stated, compared to many others...

baudib1 has been chucking the word around fairly liberally recently, too. Not a trend that I welcome.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Never made a deal so far, always go for the win. Maybe in a turbo I would think about it or if everyone is short.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I guess where I come from the word moron is used fairly regularly and I don't think anyone really has a problem with its use.

 

[KerouacsDog]

baudib1 has been chucking the word around fairly liberally recently, too. Not a trend that I welcome.

+1,

 

[ythelongface]

I agree with most of the above.... It seems if one wants to get one's point across, one could make it without calling others names such as moron or by implying that what they posted is moronic, stupid, silly etc. Say that you think that they are wrong, or that you disagree with them, but no need to toss in words that are at rude and not helpful to the discussion. Nothing wrong with being blunt, but I am sure that we can do this in a much more productive way.

 

[tenbob]

This thread is a cluster ****.

The truth of it is, if you are there for a one time event and a chop is +/-EV your do what the EV tells you. LOL though, the vast majority of ppl posting advise have never or rarely will be in that postition, or without the protection of a PC monitor will be brave enough to follow through.

The reality of the situation, is if your a reg at a casino then you should take every single MTT chop even if is sighty -EV. If you cannot figure out why then you havnt been at many casinos.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I've just looked through a few threads calicard has commented in and in one he said to WVHillbilly "If you think you can beat me come play a few tourneys at cake. I would like to show you a few things.
As far as your advice I choose to leave it cause obviously you have no real clue what you are saying" after he pointed out he played a hand terrible. He then goes on to say "It probably takes more patience and skill to win against 100 aggressive donks than it would against the more solid players."

 

[CAMurray]

I often get the same from guys that just don't want to spend another hour now that their ITM. I just tell them, I don't come just for the cash but to kick some ass, so "No I don't chop"'.

If after I tell them No, they persist, I just ask the dealer, "what part of no, do you think they are having a problem understanding?" Every TD i've ever seen, shuts down the beggers at the first sign of resistance from a player.

but then again, I do have a knack for pissing people off, which usually gets me more chips.

Don't get me wrong, I have chopped but never an equal share. so shoot me. lol

Hey guys, first post but I needed to get some good advice.

Anyways I play a lot of live MTTs at the local cardroom (AVG buy in is 100$ and entries are usually somewhere between 30-80.) Now when I get down to the final table chops always start getting brought up with about 5-6 people left. The vast majority of the time I do not like chopping, but there are cases where I will.

This is the situation I was in yesterday that made me want to post.

102$+18$ 6 handed MTT
27 players
Final Table
Payouts: 1st: 1330, 2nd: 800, 3rd:530

With 5 players left they started talking about a chop, I immediately said I didn't want to chop. They were fine with it.

At 4 players left we agreed to pay a bubble. We started 4 handed at 1500/3000/300 and Avg stack was 90K. Me and one other player were about even with avg stacks, there was a bigger stack with about 110k and a shorter stack with like 60k

A chop at this point was $660ish which was brought up and I refused again. This time they weren't as happy about me not agreeing, but gave up after a little bit of trying.

4 handed lasted through 2000/4000/400 and chips were getting passed around the whole time. After 2k/4k/4 was over we had a 10 minute break and we were going into 2500/5000/500 with the avg still at 90K and I was sitting still avg after taking a bad beat and working my stack back up. Through the entire break I was pestered about chopping and I said no. Even the chip leader was bugging me to chop. I still refused and said I would think about it at 3 handed.

2 hands into 2500/5000/500 aces got cracked all in. So now were 3 handed and the onslaught of pestering begins again, now the chop is $890. Guy has the chip lead with somewhere around 170k and is still just telling me to chop. I only have ~15bb so I just chop cause Im tired of hearing about it.

The one guy who got his aces cracked is pissed at me, the other guys are telling me how bad of karma it is blah blah blah even though I just made them both 220$

Anyways, I just want your opinions on chopping and dealing with people like that who just won't stop bugging you about chopping. I really do not like chopping unless it is heads up cause then it equals out anyways. I definitely wouldn't have chopped this one 3 ways if it wasn't for the pestering. My philosophy is that when you make it to the money you are better off going for as much as possible because you don't make it too often.

Thanks for any responses.

 

[JusSumguy]

You really ought to stop misusing that phrase. Do you actually know what it means? There are very few (if any) situations that it would be an applicable word to use in poker analysis, so it makes somebody appear ignorant when they keep misusing it. Misguided perhaps, -EV maybe or arguably foolish, but certainly not moronic. Also using emotive words like that stops it being constructive advice and turns it into a personal attack, so any wise words potentially end up being overlooked.

idk... seemed rather moronic to me too

It's okay FF... I felted her a cuppla times. Do it again for you if you like.

She's changed my posts when quoting them. Never misses a chance to use the old passive aggression thing. Maybe her **** doesn't stink.

But I will say (if the picture in her avatar is really her) she is fine though.


-

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

I guess where I come from the word moron is used fairly regularly and I don't think anyone really has a problem with its use.

There are very few (if any) situations that it would be an applicable word to use in poker analysis

moron is a horrible word, and was uncalled for, but luckjilly I dont see it used too often at CC, we are a friendly site, as FF stated, compared to many others

If you think using words like moronic and idiotic helps players improve there game then you have a lot to learn about people.

I agree with most of the above.... It seems if one wants to get one's point across, one could make it without calling others names such as moron or by implying that what they posted is moronic, stupid, silly etc. Say that you think that they are wrong, or that you disagree with them, but no need to toss in words that are at rude and not helpful to the discussion. Nothing wrong with being blunt, but I am sure that we can do this in a much more productive way.

You do realize, that comments like the ones below are what very likely put people off making some strategy/in-depth poker posts, right?

Seems some people disagree with you. Also this thread discusses the use of a similar type of word:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/community-hangout-4/news-campaign-stop-use-retard-insult-151609/

I've just looked through a few threads calicard has commented in and in one he said to WVHillbilly "If you think you can beat me come play a few tourneys at cake. I would like to show you a few things. As far as your advice I choose to leave it cause obviously you have no real clue what you are saying" after he pointed out he played a hand terrible. He then goes on to say "It probably takes more patience and skill to win against 100 aggressive donks than it would against the more solid players."

I didn't think that WVH was a tournament player.

Never made a deal so far, always go for the win. Maybe in a turbo I would think about it or if everyone is short.

They're not talking about online poker, it's a lot harder to tell people to take a hike when you're face-to-face.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Seems some people disagree with you. Also this thread discusses the use of a similar type of word:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/community-hangout-4/news-campaign-stop-use-retard-insult-151609/

I didn't think that WVH was a tournament player.

To me that thread just contains a load of PC bullshit. I have always called people gay, retards, morons etc... as a way of descrbing certain actions that have nothing to do with the word themselves. I know what retard means but when I type it I don't mean it by definition. If somebody does something stupid on a certain street, say turn for this example I say something like I don't get why you randomly spaz out on the turn yet I don't think anyone has once pulled me up on that. Most people that I know use it as standard language, it's only when you start thinking about the meaning where people start to get offended. Insults like that should be taken at face value and not as their literal meaning. I think the only word that is probably pushing it abit is the one that I got deleted from my post by a mod.

He's not to my knowledge but for a newish memeber to say he doesn't have a clue and then just post completely wrong things is just ridiculous and shows that he has no intention of learning fom players who are infinitely better than him.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

I'm never sure whether it should be mong or hmong

 

[calicard]

yeah whatever

I have a winning mentality and a pretty good pedigree in both football and athletics where I ran for my county, a sport where winning is everything. I think my problem is not the lack of a winning mentality but having a sound understanding of maths and not being a drooler who loves pissing my equity up the wall. A good player accepts this deal. A moron like you rejects it on the basis of having a winning mentality. As I said earlier who wins more long term? The person who knows how to play poker and win the maximum or the person with an IQ that leaves them bordering on mental retardation?

I know exactly how ICM works and this is a spot we use it in. You've already made yourself look stupid enough by saying go for the win. Are you seriously telling me you don't understand why ICM is being used in this spot? If I didn't know what ICM meant I wouldn't have mentioned it in terms of dealing in this spot?

As far as I'm concerned you're an idiotic ***** who has no idea what he is on about and your sole purpose in this thread has been to give the worst possible advice.

As for the bit highlighted, I couldn't care less about you improving your game, you've shown you're beyond help. I would say learn how to use correct grammar before you start pulling people up on a typo though. A typo is acceptable, not knowing when to use their/there is just highlighting your lack of intellect even further.

You misspelled maximize plain and simple twice then you call me a moron and an idiotic *****. That my friend sounds like something a 7-12 year old would do. As far as your pedigree goes I do not care what breed your mother was. The last thing I need from you is help improving my game so please do not respond to my post or call me any more names.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

The last thing I need from you is help improving my game

Why come here at all, if you don't need help with improving your game? Sounds as though you do need help, anyway. Also you can't pick and choose who replies to your posts, ultimately the mods will decide whether someone has over-stepped the mark.

 

[BlueNowhere]

You misspelled maximize plain and simple twice then you call me a moron and an idiotic *****. That my friend sounds like something a 7-12 year old would do. As far as your pedigree goes I do not care what breed your mother was. The last thing I need from you is help improving my game so please do not respond to my post or call me any more names.

I didn't spell it wrong twice. I spelt it correctly once and I spelt it wrong once in what was clearly a typo. You're a [insert whatever word doesn't result in infraction point but sufficently gets the point across that calicard has IQ hovering around the 70 mark] You however struggle with their/there which is inexcusable. You have no clue and your few posts on cardschat have shown as much. Level 1 thinker at best.

 

[calicard]

Maximize

That word is used much too often on here.I stated my opinion, only to be called a moron. If you really want to call other members moron's you should really check what you write first. Someone that is so free to call someone else a moron should at least be able to spell. Again just my opinion.
And once again I play to win.

No I said if you think it's advisable to play in the hope that you win when you're a shortstack being offered an even split you are moronic. Although judging by your last sentence here you think it's a good idea to ignore ICM and carry on regardless, if you enjoy not being a good poker player, carry on. You'll always have people who understand trying to explain why the way you think you should play is moronic. Next time you play a SnG and you reach the bubble just carry on going for the win whilst someone like me adjusts my game based on stack size and realises it isn't always a good idea to play for the win and flip for stacks. Who do you think will be more profitable after a few thousand games? The person who knows how to play or the person who plays like a drooler?

Also despite being a moron in poker I'm pretty sure you knew the first maximise was a typo. Even if I didn't know how it was spelt it was irrelevant to the argument and I don't know how that villifies your 'play to win' attitude other than using it as a diverting tactic from the issue at hand.

I'm telling you the correct way to play if you were in this spot, it is not an opinion as there is nothing to debate about it. Your opinion of what to do in this spot is categorically wrong. To defend the way you advocate playing here is ridiculous at best, showing a complete lack of knowledge at worst. There is alot worse things I could (and would if the forum didn't asterisk certain words) have called you that would sum up the idiocy of what you advocate. People visit this poker forum for a serious discussion and what to do in certain spots, you'd be better off staying away from threads if you're just going to post advice that is wrong.

It's no skin off my nose if you make incorrect plays, just don't tell other members to play a certain way when it is wrong.

The reality that you are wrong is too much for you to handle huh ? You still believe that maximize is spelled maximise, And of course you are an infinitely better player than I am because you state it to be a fact with no knowledge whatsoever of who I am what I have won what stakes I play or what game I play. You know everything , because you say so. The only diversion here is you resorting to name calling. I guess that comes from your breeding.

 

[BlueNowhere]

The reality that you are wrong is too much for you to handle huh ? You still believe that maximize is spelled maximise, And of course you are an infinitely better player than I am because you state it to be a fact with no knowledge whatsoever of who I am what I have won what stakes I play or what game I play. You know everything , because you say so. The only diversion here is you resorting to name calling. I guess that comes from your breeding.

Yes it is. I know you yanks try to butcher the English language as much as possible but the correct spelling is maximise.

Looking at the BI from a HH you posted it's obvious what stakes you play.

Yes I do believe I am an infinitely better player than you. Your apparent skill level in arbitrary units is 0. infinity*0 = 0. my skill level > 0 therefore I am infinitely better than you. There's some mathematical proof if you weren't happy with the emperical proof already on offer.

I don't know everything. I know more than you.

If only some form of eugenics was introduced I wouldn't have to deal with insufferable idiots like you.

 

[calicard]

Merry Christmas to you too

Yes it is. I know you yanks try to butcher the English language as much as possible but the correct spelling is maximise.

Looking at the BI from a HH you posted it's obvious what stakes you play.

Yes I do believe I am an infinitely better player than you. Your apparent skill level in arbitrary units is 0. infinity*0 = 0. my skill level > 0 therefore I am infinitely better than you. There's some mathematical proof if you weren't happy with the emperical proof already on offer.

I don't know everything. I know more than you.

If only some form of eugenics was introduced I wouldn't have to deal with insufferable idiots like you.

Merry Christmas to you too.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

The English spelling is maximise, and the language is actually called English. Whether somebody makes posts that make sense is probably more important (on a poker forum) than how good their spelling or grammar is. Many of BlueNowhere's posts have contained good advice, and WVHillbilly has probably given me more useful advice than all the other contributors of this forum combined.

EDIT: whether you choose to take their advice is up to you, of course!

 

[KerouacsDog]

man for a few seconds Im thinking, 'it IS maximise, right????'. and then I doubted myself, lol. Damn Yanks and their bastardisation of our language......................
ok, carry on.