Check it down while someone is all in?

xnihilo82

xnihilo82

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How many of you will check a hand down with someone if there is a 3rd party all in? Is this considered to be a good play? It seems to reason in my mind that you should put aside that one pot, to try to move yourself, and everyone else up a spot. Maybe you win, maybe you don't, but the more people the all in guy has to go against, the more likely he will be eliminated.

Am I completely off in my line of thinking here? Cause it seems like noone ever does that.
 
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Ernster86

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Correct it is good play.

If its for a SNG/tournament where the the player all in will be the bubble boy, then its best to just check it out and eliminate him.

Then the table can start to play real poker and this is where you can shine, as lot of players will just feel relieved they are in the money and may loosen up which you can exploit.

Having said that, if you have the nuts when by all means raise it and go 1 on 1 and take down the big pot.
 
Juniorsdaddy

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In tournaments, you usually do want to check the hand down in order to eliminate a player. There are two exceptions to the rule:

1. A side pot has formed. Betting is still acceptable to try and take down the side pot.
2. One of you has the nuts, and cannot be beat. Common courtesy here is an overbet or all-in to let the other player know you have this hand won.

A common problem I see is someone overbetting with a hand weaker than the nuts, and they cannot even beat the original all-in. Too many cash games. :D
 
xnihilo82

xnihilo82

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In tournaments, you usually do want to check the hand down in order to eliminate a player. There are two exceptions to the rule:

1. A side pot has formed. Betting is still acceptable to try and take down the side pot.
2. One of you has the nuts, and cannot be beat. Common courtesy here is an overbet or all-in to let the other player know you have this hand won.

A common problem I see is someone overbetting with a hand weaker than the nuts, and they cannot even beat the original all-in. Too many cash games. :D

That is what I see constantly, and commonly I fold, only to see them get beat by the original all in.
 
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xXShannonAXx

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i check it down ill only bet if i have the absolute nuts i dont believe in betting into a side pot when hit crap like one pair etc or nothing just to have the all innner knock you out
 
doops

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Most of the time, in a tourney, I'd say check it down to try to eliminate the all-in.

If it's nowhere near the bubble, and the all-in has no chips to speak of (i.e., the pot is teeny), just play normally and ignore the all-in.

If on the bubble or at a crucial point (another level in the money), definitely check it down with as many people as will play. The only betting that should be done had better be with the absolute nuts. (Some will check it down with the nuts, too, but will play happily if someone tried to take a stab at the pot. Be warned.)

The point, right then, is to eliminate the all-in. Don't be a jerk and bet with nothing, leaving the all-in alive and well. The assumption that a bettor has the nuts, so most everyone else will fold and everyone is gonna see your stupid hand fail miserably.
 
SydTheCat

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Most of the time, in a tourney, I'd say check it down to try to eliminate the all-in.

If it's nowhere near the bubble, and the all-in has no chips to speak of (i.e., the pot is teeny), just play normally and ignore the all-in.

If on the bubble or at a crucial point (another level in the money), definitely check it down with as many people as will play. The only betting that should be done had better be with the absolute nuts. (Some will check it down with the nuts, too, but will play happily if someone tried to take a stab at the pot. Be warned.)

The point, right then, is to eliminate the all-in. Don't be a jerk and bet with nothing, leaving the all-in alive and well. The assumption that a bettor has the nuts, so most everyone else will fold and everyone is gonna see your stupid hand fail miserably.

I agree, if your no where near the bubble, then play normal. What I dont get is when a player forces you out of the pot with nothing, and ends up losing to the all in anyway. Is he trying to win a side pot with nothing?
Maybe I'm missing something.
 
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ted80

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it depends. if i've got AK, or QQ+...maybe JJ, it depends on what the all-in guy's range might be...i might still raise after their shove. i'm trying to profit if i think i have a good hand. if their shove covers a blind and its not worth it for me to call, i'll happily fold, i'm not greedy at all....but if i've got a good hand, i'm not so much going for the all-in guy, i'm going for everyone else who called...even if the shove wins, i can still make some chips if i play my cards right, and i'm more than happy to bet it out

if its just "correct" to call at times, even if i'm sure i've won, there's times i'm fine with checking it down with someone, especially if i know they're really tight and there's a reason they called to begin with.
 
Stu_Ungar

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How many of you will check a hand down with someone if there is a 3rd party all in? Is this considered to be a good play? It seems to reason in my mind that you should put aside that one pot, to try to move yourself, and everyone else up a spot. Maybe you win, maybe you don't, but the more people the all in guy has to go against, the more likely he will be eliminated.

Am I completely off in my line of thinking here? Cause it seems like noone ever does that.

It can be right, but its against the rules if you and the second villain agree to do it.

So whatever you do, don't suggest to your opponent that you both check it down.
 
Poof

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In tournaments, you usually do want to check the hand down in order to eliminate a player. There are two exceptions to the rule:

1. A side pot has formed. Betting is still acceptable to try and take down the side pot.
2. One of you has the nuts, and cannot be beat. Common courtesy here is an overbet or all-in to let the other player know you have this hand won.

A common problem I see is someone overbetting with a hand weaker than the nuts, and they cannot even beat the original all-in. Too many cash games. :D

This^^^
If you do not have the nuts, check it down. It is extremely frustrating when the other player over bets and knocks you off the winning hand only to double up the original all in.
 
Kenzie 96

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Go to the General Poker Section, then open the Golden Archives section, on page 2 about 5 threads down from the top you will find a thread titled "Checking Down, started by Buckster. Give it a read.
 
SavagePenguin

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Early in a game I fight for the pot. Knocking someone out then is not significant. Mostly likely the guy who shoved short is dead money and will donk it off later anyway. So knocking him out now is less of a priority than winning a bigger pot is.

If we're close to the bubble, or trying to move up payout levels, I'll check it down unless I have a monster.
 
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witl69

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I would always try to check and stay in the pot here hopeflly that way keeping the third party in also and hopefully knocking out the all inner which is 1 less person and or and usually donk lol
 
M33K3R

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I usually check it down if there's no side pot and it's near the bubble. The only way I don't check is if I hit a monster on the flop and I think my oppenent will pay me. If it's a bounty tourny I'll bet if I have a decent hand I can get the bounty.
 
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buckster436

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i wrote about this very thing 4 years ago on here, yet, theres still players that bet when they got nothing, if you want to look it up, its in the Archives Section,,it happens still, at least once a week in our cc games, its just as important to get a player out of the game, but no one seems to believe it,,,,,,,, buck:rolleyes:
 
doops

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It can be right, but its against the rules if you and the second villain agree to do it.

So whatever you do, don't suggest to your opponent that you both check it down.

Yes. Well. That's why we discuss it here, in theoretical terms. At the table, it stinks of collusion.

The reality is that, when like-minded players check it down, without discussion, it remains inherently collusive, as you/we are acting together to try to get another person out. That said, it is also non-collusive, because it is a standard play that potentially benefits literally everyone left in the game -- and the person who is all-in is not necessarily upset, either. I don't consider it objectionably collusive, even when done against me. In fact, if I am short-stacked, go all-in and two or more people call my shove, I am happy--- if my hand holds up, I can suddenly become a big stack. Tripling-up and quadrupling up is the greatest.
 
zjohnzzz

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if its the final table makes sense monetarily to ensure that hes eliminated
 
doops

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if its the final table makes sense monetarily to ensure that hes eliminated

Actually, final table can be most dangerous.

The check-down does not ensure that the all-in is eliminated, it just gives all hands a chance to win, and the hope is that the all-in will be gone when the dust settles. By pitting more than one against the all-in, there is an increased likelihood that someone other than Mr. All-in will win the hand.

However, if the all-in wins, he has tripled up, at least. So he is now likely to be back in the game, and two others have decreased their stacks.

It is, therefore, rather important that anyone who calls an all-in at the final table has a hand that is reasonably capable of winning.

Then again, that is what usually happens. Final tables get wild, often, and the lead can shift many times.
 
kidkvno1

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In tournaments, you usually do want to check the hand down in order to eliminate a player. There are two exceptions to the rule:

1. A side pot has formed. Betting is still acceptable to try and take down the side pot.
2. One of you has the nuts, and cannot be beat. Common courtesy here is an overbet or all-in to let the other player know you have this hand won.

A common problem I see is someone overbetting with a hand weaker than the nuts, and they cannot even beat the original all-in. Too many cash games. :D

That is what I see constantly, and commonly I fold, only to see them get beat by the original all in.

When i see that i lol, call him dumb ;) but i don't put it in the chat box :)..
I see it all to much, the only way i am taking him HU, if i have a monster.
Nice Thread Buck,,,,,
 
left52side

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There sre som e older threads started on this subject.
I posted one,you can searh for if you like betting into a dry pot.
I have seen all to many times where someone was betting into a dry pot with middle or bottom pair forcing me to fold only to find I would have beat the all in,that is just such a common mistake I see all the time in the lo limit games.
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Most times those going all in near the bubble are desperation hands. I'll raise to take my chances against them. And I like the second pot. There are times I've lost to the OB but have picked up the side pot and have increased my chip stack. Checking down is stupid. I will play whatever to have a healthy chip stack at the final table.
 
cardplayer52

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this is hardly ever the correct play. you should be playing to win. i will check down a hand that has some showdown value. if a bet is not likely to be called by a weaker hand. and most like my bet will only be called by a better hand. but if i got a hand that pretty strong and likely best such as TPWK i will bet to protect it. if this was a satellite then checking down would be ok. and sometimes in a tourney if the next pay spot is a huge increase.(maybe from 10th to 9th or 4th to 3rd). but for the most part play to win not just move up the pay latter.
 
DetroitJimmy

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I will almost always check it down unless there is a huge side pot and I have a very good hand or if I have the nuts and don't want the other guy to get free cards. That's when I would make a standard bet until a scare card comes and I slow down. It's nice to get those extra chips because you still have to play at least one other person and some times many more. Most of the time I check it down though.

The absolute worst is when you are in a satellite that pays the same for x amount of players. For example: There are 4 people left and top three get same prize. The short stack pushes and is called by you and one other. The flop comes all rags and the other guy bets. WTF is he thinking? Even if he has the nuts he gets no more for having more chips than the other 2 left. This kills me when people do this dumb shit. It's more annoying to me than getting slowrolled, and I really hate to be slowrolled!!!! :)
 
coolnout

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I had nearly a whole table limp once, and I had just over one big blind left. I shoved with K7 when it got to me and of course everbody called, the flop was like 2 7 4, and a guy with J7 pushed all in and boom it gave me instastack cuz he pushed everybody out of the pot.
 
JustRaiseTheBlinds

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I check it out when I think my hand don't beat my left opponent...

If I think it's better, I bet to get more into the pot and win more from that one...
 
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