Bubble play: Move All In Preflop with AA or fold for guaranteed money

[Rebels Devil]

I don't know about others, but I've followed Daniel Negreanu and even he has said that if you gut tells you to fold "do it" and your still in the game. So regardless of bubble or not, listen openly to what you feel. I have folded AA many times because they just are not the bomb to all play. And, I've actually lost more times with AA against 22 in preflop raises. It is just as easy for another 2 to come up as it is an A.

 

[Vex444]

Cal Cal Call. You made the right move. He just lucked out. Play to win. He
was trying to muscle you out of the pot. I bet when he first saw those aces he was not happy. The poker gods once again gave the win to the under dog. But in the long run you'll beat them.

 

[Leo 50]

As others have said you have to play for First Place, not just the money.

If you are playing for the money only, stick to the cash games.
If you are a tourney player, then nothing more than first place (a consolation of making the final table and some money is always nice) will satisfy a real poker player.

Be aware though, even the best players only win a small % of the time.

 

[N.D.]

I couldn't find a single post where someone said that in the situation as presented you should fold with AA.

I just think it's interesting that someone's LOLing at people who have neither read nor posted in the thread.

As for it being just as easy for a third 2 to come up as an A. You're correct, it's just as easy. But can AA be counterfieted by 22 as easily as 222 can be counterfieted by AA? Nope. See, the AA is still live for a straight if 3, 4, or 5 also landed on the flop + it can still hit one or both of the remaining A's and on top of that if any one of the other cards on the board gets trips or even the most miraculous quads on the board, then AA completely demolishes 222.

Plus with the chips all-in pre-flop it's not even sucking out though 222 might whine and bitch that it is.

Left out that for the bizarre quads on the board to happen the 2's would have had to flop a boat, but they'd have the bottom end of the boat even if all the chips weren't in the pot already. Bottom ends of boats have a funny way of sinking right to the bottom of the tournament's leaderboard.

 

[Styrofoam]

You can't reasonably think you're going to make money in the long hall if you attempt to only make 18th. yeah, making money is good, but you can make 18th 3 times and not make what first place gets once.

the ONLY time you fold AA is in a sat. where 1-18th all get the exact same thing. never any time else. ever.

 

[Styrofoam]

I don't know about others, but I've followed Daniel Negreanu and even he has said that if you gut tells you to fold "do it" and your still in the game. So regardless of bubble or not, listen openly to what you feel. I have folded AA many times because they just are not the bomb to all play. And, I've actually lost more times with AA against 22 in preflop raises. It is just as easy for another 2 to come up as it is an A.

the difference here is a 2 HAS to come up in order for you to lose. a A doesn't for him. You aren't losing more than you win AA v 22 heads up. period. If you're folding AA preflop you're -ev BIG time.

 

[N.D.]

the difference here is a 2 HAS to come up in order for you to lose. a A doesn't for him. You aren't losing more than you win AA v 22 heads up. period. If you're folding AA preflop you're -ev BIG time.

Agreed. I was thinking about post-flop b4 because Rebel was talking about the 2 hitting, but you're totally right.

 

[Exit141RTe1]

I'm calling. Anything less is not in the cards so to speak. It might be just me. You may have to wait to get in the money position and it may be too late.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I don't know about others, but I've followed Daniel Negreanu and even he has said that if you gut tells you to fold "do it" and your still in the game. So regardless of bubble or not, listen openly to what you feel. I have folded AA many times because they just are not the bomb to all play. And, I've actually lost more times with AA against 22 in preflop raises. It is just as easy for another 2 to come up as it is an A.

So you're going to fold vs. one opponent preflop while holding AA cuz your gut tells you they've got a smaller pkt.pr. that's going to hit a set?? Sorry but I think I'll take the math 100% of the time.

 

[Poker Orifice]

You can't fold AA here... that's just crazy. If you could've seen his holecards prior to making the call.... would you call? Of course you would.. no matter what he's got (esp. if pkt. pr.!!).

 

[Poker Orifice]

I agree with AA there is no way you can fold at that position. I had to make a decision with AA when i was playing heads up $25/$50.

This is how the story went i've mentioned it many times in this forum because that is the biggest loss in my poker carreer. I was playing at the high stakes at full tilt poker and i've been breaking even against someone and next hand i was dealt AA and i raised the standard raise three times the big blind he re raises nine times the big blind. I thought to myself he either has AK or KK or maybe QQ so i re raised him all in. We turned our hands around and i was relieved that he was holding AK not suited so he only has three outs and needed two of the three outs to win. I was so happy because if i won this hand I was have around 2600 dollars pretty good when i only depossited 10 dollars at full tilt a week ago. The flop was K K 8 and my heart just dropped. The turn came and it gave me a ace high flush draw. The last card was just a rag card. He won all that money and he didnt even have the common courtesy to say sorry for the bad beat.

I was mad for the first 10 minutes and i realized that in reality i only lost 10 dollars of my own money. Knowing that my poker skills have been raised to a new level I believe that i can do this all over again.

I don't usually play at the high stakes of full tilt but after watching an episode of Poker After Dark with the nets vs the vet I was so determined to make it to the big leagues like all those nets that said "of i only deposited 50 dollars", their story was similar to mines except i only depositted 10 dollars. This made me move up to $25/$50 blinds. I usualy play like $1/$2 or if i'm feeling lucky i go to $5/$10 blinds. This is just to show you to never rush poker and just keep playing the same way you are most successful with.

THis ^^ is why there's such a thing as bankroll management.
Last night I was able to stack off villain preflop w AA while in SB. Villain raises 4x OTB, I 3-bet to 15x, villain 4bet shoves... I call. He turns over QQ and hits the Q on the turn. I'm disappointed to say the least but move along knowing I'm getting my money in good. I lost the big 0.75% of my Bankroll.

 

[ChrisJJJJ]

I would propably fold anything but AA in this situation. Ive gotta take my chances with the pocket rockets though.

 

[teksmith]

As said before only fold these if all the places pay the same, otherwise you need to win. Actually by just raising and not pushing all in you were really hoping someone would call or push so you could get paid off, weren't you? I hate to get AA and have the table fold around when I raise.

 

[ballboy75]

you did nothing wrong, except perhaps you forgot to pray to the poker gods before you entered the tourney.
thats just rotten luck bro, dont let it get to you.
i agree with many of the things that were said here, especially the memeber who posted "pump your fists ..." cant remember who, sorry.
if you managed to get to 18th place and lose with AA, im sure it wont be long before you win a tourney.
keep your chin up, you did well.

 

[TheWall]

For the dude who said he'd want to say he cashed in the wsop--wouldn't you much rather take this opportunity to make a deep run? I know I could never live with passing up the chance to win that thing. As many have said the only time to fold AA preflop is in a satellite when your all playing for the same thing and you are in a comfortable position to get it. It made me sick when that guy in this years WSOP folded KK because he was afraid--play to win.

 

[KICKIN_ACES]

call and fist pump! I'm going for first place, not 18th,

This for sure :top:

 

[aliengenius]

Depends on your [relative] starting stack size in these situations.

 

[dj11]

I would still call here, but under the circumstances I don't see it as a fist pumping moment. More of a heart stopping moment. For those who say they play for the win, I say, don't play to be the bubble!

I'm gonna guess this was Full Tilt, cuz they do this action shit often at the bubble......

Sometimes, the right play is the wrong play, and this usually happens at the bubble.

Next time, in that exact situation, just be absent from the table, allow the poker gods to escort you into the money, and then resume play. Then curse yourself for having missed the AA hand.

So much easier that way.......

 

[RA2000]

Depends on your bankroll and the way you play...
Do you just want to make the money or do you want to win the tournement?
If you just want to get into the money you got 100 % if you fold.
If you call there is a chance that you loose. So it is ok to fold here then!

 

[No Brainer]

You can't fold AA here... that's just crazy. If you could've seen his holecards prior to making the call.... would you call? Of course you would.. no matter what he's got (esp. if pkt. pr.!!).

So true, If you had seen his cards at the start of the hand you would have put all of your chips on the line so you made the right decision.

The fact that he flopped a set is just a normal part of poker. When your pocket rockets come up against a lower pair you have about an 80% chance of winning the hand. This means that 1 in every 5 times that this same hand comes up you are going to lose it.

Basically if you fold this hand with odds like that to get in the money you are playing out of your bankroll or are in a sattelite.

 

[bilgert]

I don't think it's an insta-shove without knowing the background/circumstance of the player. Let's say he's a micro player and he satellited into this tournament on a freeroll and making $55 quadruples his bankroll or greater. Well crap- making any money is huge, so I don't think it's criminal to fold. Sure He's an 81%- 19% favorite, but the consequence of that loss are huge.

If the tournament is within the player's bankroll, then I say shove shove shove.

This decision making process holds true for even the pros. The hyper-agressive Elky was in a WPT final table (I forget which one) and was folding reasonably good hands that he would normally shove or reshove with because he didn't want to risk finishing below a certain place. He was trying to accrue enough points so that he could be WPT player of the year.

So in summary, I think that circumstances outside of the realm of the game can certainly be considered when playing for your tournament life. Just keep in mind that other people might/could recognize this and respond appropriately (agressively).

 

[ethon]

Have to play for first. If you get sucked out on, just walk outside for 5 minutes and cool off.