Bad beat or should I have know - double up SNG hand analysis

M

MakeUcryalot

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Okay this was the first hand in a double up 6 man SNG

Hand#4444F9D4CA000001 - DoubleUp Turbo NLH 6-max - $1 T16372938 -- TICKETCASH -- $0.9 + $0.1 -- 6 Max -- Table 1 -- 0/15/30 NL Hold'em -- 2016/06/05 - 08:33:27
Dealer: Seat 1
Seat 1: shadow9999 (1,500 in chips)
Seat 2: MakinUCry (1,500 in chips)
Seat 3: DanlB (1,500 in chips)
Seat 8: johnjohn1970 (1,500 in chips)
Seat 9: GolaStronzo (1,500 in chips)
Seat 10: RAYCEE (1,500 in chips)
MakinUCry: posts small blind 15
DanlB: posts big blind 30
Dealt to MakinUCry [Qs,3s]
johnjohn1970: folds
GolaStronzo: folds
RAYCEE: calls 30
shadow9999: folds
MakinUCry: calls 15
DanlB: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd,3c,As]
MakinUCry: bets 60
DanlB: folds
RAYCEE: calls 60
*** TURN *** [Js]
MakinUCry: bets 210
RAYCEE: raises to 840
MakinUCry: calls 630
*** RIVER *** [7h]
MakinUCry: is all in 570
RAYCEE: is all in 570
MakinUCry: shows [Qs 3s]
RAYCEE: shows [Ks Tc]
***SHOW DOWN***
RAYCEE wins 3,030 with Straight Ace high
MakinUCry finished 6 out of 6 players.

I figured with the no read that villain is bluffing more often than not, but i feel I should have folded the turn, folded the river and honestly folded preflop. It was only a dollar buy in btw.
 
MattRyder

MattRyder

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I guess it depends. Villain's raise on the turn looked pretty good. 2 pair that are basically slow-played on the flop lose to straight draws that fill in later lots. I would see Q3s as purely a bluffing hand and would either play it really strong early on not at all. Playing it passively (as you did) doesn't give you a chance to read villain's reaction to aggression.
 
bushy_lufc

bushy_lufc

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Sounds Nitty but i would recommend not completing from the small blind. In a double up tourney you want to make decisions incredibly straight forward, especially early levels. Tight is right, then just use ICM to shove relentlessly on the bubble.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Sounds Nitty but i would recommend not completing from the small blind. In a double up tourney you want to make decisions incredibly straight forward, especially early levels. Tight is right, then just use ICM to shove relentlessly on the bubble.

Agree.

When he floats the flop I have to consider Ax predominately in his range and if he ever wakes up and gets aggro, especially before the river, I will have assume he has a higher 2 pair - let alone the straight draw.

Also I think it is a thinking error to assume a bluff "more times than not" (you're basically saying 51%+) from an unknown opponent. With no data you pretty much have to give them benefit of the doubt until you prove other wise seeing as if he is indeed a 51%+ bluffer, he won't last long.
 
HowS

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Sounds Nitty but i would recommend not completing from the small blind. In a double up tourney you want to make decisions incredibly straight forward, especially early levels. Tight is right, then just use ICM to shove relentlessly on the bubble.

Tight is right is what I go by, especially in the early stages of these tournaments.
 
naruto_miu

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The turn was the Issue here, but going beyond that, the call preflop OOP from the SB, was In a nut shell "Wrong". I don't say It's wrong because you called and would be OOP post flop but wrong because you're only hoping to flop 2pair+ In that situation. So If you're only hoping to flop 2pair+ as a pair of queens can't really be great enough to want to get stacks ITM with, than what are you really doing with the hand In the first place? Since blinds were low, you really didn't need to complete. Yet since you did that, then you flop 2 pair, and bet, fair enough.

Yet once called, you need to actually figure out what this player, Is calling a flop bet with that doesn't raise preflop? Since turn completes alot of the "Calling Ranges" your bet really does nothing for you, since It's only bloating the pot up+All hands that beat you at this stage aren't folding.

So, you still decided to bet. Ok again, I ask you this question, why In the world would you bet 210, when the pot Itself at this stage was 180?

Now that you made this pot-size over full bet (Thing), and got "Re-Raised", what In the world are you doing calling? What could you possibly beat here? This size of a "Re-Raise" Is 1 of 2 usually, A)I have the goods and want to make It look like I'm afraid and/or I don't want you to draw out on me. B) This size of raise, should let you know you're dead, or drawing very thin (In your case 2 other queens+2 other 3s+ the spades). That being said and done, the player's bet made It unreasonable for you to get the proper odds to making the call needed to chase the flush with only the river to come.

In conclusion, as others have stated "Dons" aren't really about finishing 1st but about "Chip Preservation", the better you are at preserving your chips the better you'll become and the more you'll be cashing In them In the long run.

FYI, I want to know, how In the world did you come to the conclusion that this player "Had to be bluffing"?
 
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vassiriki

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your bet on the turn is too high imho and with such a small investment on the flop and before flop, don't expect anyone to bluff you reraising that amount. it's still too much to bet on the turn but it also allowed you to escape from the hand. just think about with what or why should he reraise me on that turn?
 
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FlyingFitz

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Slow playing gets you in trouble

I find that if I turn over a great hand like you had (2 pairs) - It is best to bet large, like all in to keep from losing on the river to a better hand. Even 3 of a kind isn't any good against a straight or flush, so if you try to slow play out a 2 pair or 3 of a kind hand, by the time the river is out - that great hand you once had - is now the losing hand and instead of getting the pot (At a smaller amount) - you get all in and busted! At least I have found this to happen to me many, many times and I have adjusted my strategy accordingly which seems to be working much better.
 
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Mauno

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I would fold after turn. So high raise from opponent is significant.
Your bet after flop was too small also.. Opponent didnt spend much to see next cards wich changed situation for him.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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I find that if I turn over a great hand like you had (2 pairs) - It is best to bet large, like all in to keep from losing on the river to a better hand. Even 3 of a kind isn't any good against a straight or flush, so if you try to slow play out a 2 pair or 3 of a kind hand, by the time the river is out - that great hand you once had - is now the losing hand and instead of getting the pot (At a smaller amount) - you get all in and busted! At least I have found this to happen to me many, many times and I have adjusted my strategy accordingly which seems to be working much better.



Why are we trying to fold out worse hands:confused: , your mind-set Is flawed, use rational to think about things rather than a type of thought which looks like "I'm going to lose by the river so I want to price this player out now, so I win the min"? What logical poker playing person thinks like this about situations?
 
vita087

vita087

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BEST THINGS IN SUCH TIME IS NOT COMPLETE THE SMALL AND EXPECT THE RIGHT OF ITM TIME TO PUSH AND PRESS
 
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