A question about short stacked play

[MediaBLITZ]

Would be interested to know if people like to win or survive, and their experience and skill levels.....

Me too - why don't you start a new thread/poll - "Tournament - Win or Survive?"

I'd just do it but it was your idea so I defer to you rather than hijack.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

You don't get it Lasercats. yes, you can come back from anywhere. BUT. You will gain more by getting on with it in the right situations than waiting for AA/KK/AK with a short stack.

Oh and I dont mean to put you down or anything, but this shows you having made $3.71 in the last week on the merge network.......?
http://playerscope.com/lasercats/mergenetwork?pid=48288773&pnid=22

Sorry Lasercat - I really don't mean to pile on but this is a perfect example -

For the last 120 days:
Player Scope shows you in the money 36% - BRAVO!!!!

Player Scope shows your profit margin is IN THE RED

It's just not working for you. Time to try something different.

 

[dj11]

So is there a limit as to how short you will get or do you go all the way down to a single BB (or less) waiting for an opportunity?

If ITM I can blind out, figuring I might get a pay raise. Been a long time since that happened tho. Usually an orbit or two beyond conventional wisdom will get me some cards and the solution to the problem.

And truely, get off that 'In it to win it' bandwagon!!!! We are all always in it to win it. But I can count on 2 or 3 fingers the times when I hit the money as the chip leader and finished first, and it will take more than all my hands and feet to count how many times I have limped into the money and won . I really do think that "win at all costs" is a losers mentality. Sure its great to have more working tools (chips) at that point, but you need to understand that if you can stay approximately average you will end up HU for the big prize.

 

[Nooneinparticular]

but you need to understand that if you can stay approximately average you will end up HU for the big prize.

But this thread is about short stack play, not about "average" stack play.
If average, different game entirely, but short stack, get on with it is what we are saying....

 

[Nooneinparticular]

Sorry Lasercat - I really don't mean to pile on but this is a perfect example -

For the last 120 days:
Player Scope shows you in the money 36% - BRAVO!!!!

Player Scope shows your profit margin is IN THE RED

It's just not working for you. Time to try something different.

This can't be spelt out more clearly!!!!!

 

[HotShotX]

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Having had a chance to play a few more MTTs and following the advice in this thread regarding rebuys, I'm gonna have to modify what I said earlier and confirm Noone, Danzi, and Razz to be partially-correct.

You play MTTs to win, not to just "cash-in". In the past week I've rebought and adding on multiple times in games, playing very aggressively, in order to ensure a good stack before freezing out begins and eliminations are final.

Similar to my previous argument however, I would advise that there are certain times to account for, that you modify your betting style.

Prior to Prize Pool, and Right after Prize Pool.

PPP - At this point a lot of the lower stacks (yours included) start tightening up and praying they make it to cashing in, at least to make the past 3-4 hours profitable. Larger stacks will attempt to raise on weaker hands in order to bluff lower stacks out of their blinds.

You might find it easier to win against larger stacks in this situation, and would be the time to start building your own stack. If it's you versus and smaller stack, and no large stacks are involved, you can try bluffing, as it will work better on someone worried about going out right before cashing in.

RPP - Once cash is guaranteed to everyone remaining, people start to loosen up and begin to play, bet, and risk more. You might find it beneficial to either play a strong hand against these people in order to build your stack, or to let others eliminate them in order to climb the prize ranks.

I suspect you will not have an easy time bluffing your way through at this time period, so make sure your hand is good.


As for your original question, which is about being short stacked and blind vulnerable at any given time of play. Just do it. Remember that even AA can lose, and nursing a crippled stack that doesn't have the magnitude to recover without multiple back-to-back wins is going to usually sputter and die.

You need to maintain a stack large enough to bring you to the safe zone after 1-2 big hands. When your stack is so small that you need 3-5 wins to recover, you usually already be past the point of no return.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Having had a chance to play a few more MTTs and following the advice in this thread regarding rebuys, I'm gonna have to modify what I said earlier and confirm Noone, Danzi, and Razz to be partially-correct.

You play MTTs to win, not to just "cash-in". In the past week I've rebought and adding on multiple times in games, playing very aggressively, in order to ensure a good stack before freezing out begins and eliminations are final.

Similar to my previous argument however, I would advise that there are certain times to account for, that you modify your betting style.

Prior to Prize Pool, and Right after Prize Pool.

PPP - At this point a lot of the lower stacks (yours included) start tightening up and praying they make it to cashing in, at least to make the past 3-4 hours profitable. Larger stacks will attempt to raise on weaker hands in order to bluff lower stacks out of their blinds.

You might find it easier to win against larger stacks in this situation, and would be the time to start building your own stack. If it's you versus and smaller stack, and no large stacks are involved, you can try bluffing, as it will work better on someone worried about going out right before cashing in.

RPP - Once cash is guaranteed to everyone remaining, people start to loosen up and begin to play, bet, and risk more. You might find it beneficial to either play a strong hand against these people in order to build your stack, or to let others eliminate them in order to climb the prize ranks.

I suspect you will not have an easy time bluffing your way through at this time period, so make sure your hand is good.


As for your original question, which is about being short stacked and blind vulnerable at any given time of play. Just do it. Remember that even AA can lose, and nursing a crippled stack that doesn't have the magnitude to recover without multiple back-to-back wins is going to usually sputter and die.

You need to maintain a stack large enough to bring you to the safe zone after 1-2 big hands. When your stack is so small that you need 3-5 wins to recover, you usually already be past the point of no return.

Huh? What?
How does this relate to the OP? It doesn't.
OP, check out Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy... there's a chapter devoted to playing on Super Short Stack (it's pretty good)

 

[CANDYMAN1414]

I feel It really depends on your cards. Now something that it down right awful Id fold but any face card Im pushing and hoping for the best.

 

[Nooneinparticular]

I feel It really depends on your cards. Now something that it down right awful Id fold but any face card Im pushing and hoping for the best.

No. It doesn't.

You need to understand the bubble factor and how to use it to your advantage (hotshot, you call it PPP, but its name the bubble factor), and also you need to understand ICM theory. Spend some time reading some Dan Harrington if you havent!

 

[Loonbat]

Hmmm ... the Moshman book sounds solid. Maybe my wife can get a free copy since she's in the Team Moshman stable