Who Played This Worse? lol

[mischman]

Me or him? After the hand he called a lucky donkey and told me i made a nice suckout. I replied that even though i got very lucky, he played just as bad as me. We discussed it for a minute. Then 5 hands later when my flush beat his 2 pair he said i was right and he played it way to weak.

Here is the stupid hand

pokerstars Game #6534124153: Tournament #32891812, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/10/05 - 22:40:47 (ET)
Table '32891812 34' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Al Carmo (1980 in chips)
Seat 2: TrplThreat23 (11340 in chips)
Seat 3: SAULGOODMAN (1287 in chips)
Seat 4: reiki1702 (525 in chips) out of hand (moved from another table into small blind)
Seat 5: handsomspoon (3510 in chips)
Seat 6: Duke50 (5170 in chips)
Seat 7: treatyprinc1 (1265 in chips)
Seat 8: Bunky9590 (4910 in chips)
Seat 9: mischman (3065 in chips)
handsomspoon: posts small blind 50
Duke50: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [8c Jc]
treatyprinc1: folds
Bunky9590: folds
mischman: raises 200 to 300
Al Carmo: folds
TrplThreat23: folds
SAULGOODMAN: folds
handsomspoon: folds
Duke50: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [5c Ad Ks]
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 400
Duke50: calls 400
*** TURN *** [5c Ad Ks] [Tc]
Duke50: bets 500
mischman: raises 500 to 1000
Duke50: calls 500
*** RIVER *** [5c Ad Ks Tc] [Qd]
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 1365 and is all-in
Duke50: calls 1365
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mischman: shows [8c Jc] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Duke50: shows [Qh Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
mischman collected 6180 from pot
Duke50 said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6180 | Rake 0
Board [5c Ad Ks Tc Qd]
Seat 1: Al Carmo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TrplThreat23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: SAULGOODMAN (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: handsomspoon (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Duke50 (big blind) showed [Qh Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 7: treatyprinc1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Bunky9590 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mischman showed [8c Jc] and won (6180) with a straight, Ten to Ace

 

[shinedown.45]

It's obv. that duke played it all wrong, he should have raised you after the flop instead of calling.....this was a no brainer.

 

[withawedge]

Agreed. He should never have checked. A big raise post flop would have put you out of the hand.

Hope you told him about CC. There must be hundreds of threads on here about attempted slowplay.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I've ranked the bad plays in order of terribleness, weeeee.

Dealt to mischman [8c Jc]
treatyprinc1: folds
Bunky9590: folds
mischman: raises 200 to 300 3 (why are you stealing with crap from EP in a $2, unless the table is bizarrely tight)
Al Carmo: folds
TrplThreat23: folds
SAULGOODMAN: folds
handsomspoon: folds
Duke50: calls 200 4 (I'd be tempted to repop here, calling is reasonable though I guess)
*** FLOP *** [5c Ad Ks]
Duke50: checks 2
mischman: bets 400
Duke50: calls 400 2 (basically check-calling flop is awful)
*** TURN *** [5c Ad Ks] [Tc]
Duke50: bets 500
mischman: raises 500 to 1000 1 (seriously wtf is this)
Duke50: calls 500
*** RIVER *** [5c Ad Ks Tc] Q♦
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 1365 and is all-in
Duke50: calls 1365
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mischman: shows [8c Jc] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Duke50: shows [Qh Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
mischman collected 6180 from pot

Basically your turn minraise owns anything other guy did in terms of 'wtf are you doing'-ness.

 

[Jack Daniels]

1. terribleness
2. 'wtf are you doing'-ness

LMAO...two more words for the CC list of coined wordes.

 

[Bombjack]

Re-raise out of position with AQ offsuit to an early position raise wouldn't be good... unless it's a maniac who's raising for the 4th hand running! Checking on the flop is a pretty good move, so long as it's a check-raise rather than a check-call.

 

[NineLions]

I've ranked the bad plays in order of terribleness, weeeee.

*** TURN *** [5c Ad Ks] [Tc]
Duke50: bets 500
mischman: raises 500 to 1000 1 (seriously wtf is this)
Duke50: calls 500
*** RIVER *** [5c Ad Ks Tc] Q♦
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 1365 and is all-in
Duke50: calls 1365

Basically your turn minraise owns anything other guy did in terms of 'wtf are you doing'-ness.

Okay, I'm still a beginner. The other comments I can understand, but can you explain this one a bit more to me.

500 to me seems reasonable when the BB is 100, so why is raising to 1000 a miniraise? He only has 2365 left, so are you saying instead of raising to 1000 he have gone all-in at this point? A semi-bluff based on the outs he's got for the river?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Okay, no probs.

It's a minraise because he raised the minimum he was allowed. There was a bet of 500 in front so the minimum raise is 500 more.

It's terrible here because hero still only has a drawing hand, and for each extra chip that goes into the pot hero's expected return is less than one chip. Calling the turn bet would be reasonable because despite what I've just said the money in the pot and implied odds make it worthwhile to play on. Pushing would be reasonable because you get additional fold equity (basically read as 'villain is more likely to fold'). Heck, even folding and preserving a workable stack isn't that bad. But minraising acheives absolutely nothing in the vast majority of cases as villain will not fold and you're getting an expected return of less then 500 chips on the extra 500 chips you're putting in if villain has any sort of hand at all (which the action strongly suggest he does).

 

[NineLions]

Thanks for the clarification on the miniraise. Maybe because I only play online I thought the "raise to 1000" on the slider was just a suggestion from online, not a minimum requirement.

So at this point, he only has 2365 left so it seems silly to go 1500 or 2000, so you'd be all-in or fold to preserve the stack.

 

[mischman]

Chris has a person vendeta(sp?) agiaisnt min-raising

 

[NineLions]

So I've noticed.

But then I have a tendancy to minibet/raise, partly because I'm still starting out, partly because that's the way the level of competition that I play against plays, so for me it's not a bad reminder.

 

[dbitel]

you're preflop play is sick bad.

His preflop play is ok...but rr is prob better.

Yourflop bet is good

His call is good (C/R here is obv bad)

His turn bet is OK.

Your turn minraise is one of teh ugliest things i've seen

his turn call is bad, he should be pushing

his river checkis bad, he should push

your river push is standard

his river call is standard

 

[t1riel]

I've ranked the bad plays in order of terribleness, weeeee.

Dealt to mischman [8c Jc]
treatyprinc1: folds
Bunky9590: folds
mischman: raises 200 to 300 3 (why are you stealing with crap from EP in a $2, unless the table is bizarrely tight)
Al Carmo: folds
TrplThreat23: folds
SAULGOODMAN: folds
handsomspoon: folds
Duke50: calls 200 4 (I'd be tempted to repop here, calling is reasonable though I guess)
*** FLOP *** [5c Ad Ks]
Duke50: checks 2
mischman: bets 400
Duke50: calls 400 2 (basically check-calling flop is awful)
*** TURN *** [5c Ad Ks] [Tc]
Duke50: bets 500
mischman: raises 500 to 1000 1 (seriously wtf is this)
Duke50: calls 500

You got to love the commentary by Dorkus. LOL!

 

[zebranky]

My turn

Errors I see with comments....

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [8c Jc]
treatyprinc1: folds
Bunky9590: folds
mischman: raises 200 to 300 hello? Fold! you're EP/MP with a weak drawing hand - let it go!
Al Carmo: folds
TrplThreat23: folds
SAULGOODMAN: folds
handsomspoon: folds
Duke50: calls 200 - AQ? Reraise here! you're probably ahead, and taking out the PF raise is a perfectly good win from this position
*** FLOP *** [5c Ad Ks]
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 400 I know what a continuation bet is - but WTF? the flop, at best, gives you a runnur-runner chance. a caller from the blinds should have something higher than a J -LET IT GO!
Duke50: calls 400 weak. TP, great kicker. this is Check-raise land, not check-call.
*** TURN *** [5c Ad Ks] [Tc]
Duke50: bets 500 why bet now? his hand didn't improve, and with 1400 in the pot, this isn't a bet thats gonna worry anyone who's already in.
mischman: raises 500 to 1000 raising with a double draw (FD, ISD) - can you do this in the team event, please? Call here, and hope
Duke50: calls 500 if you're betting to kill the draws, then here is where you PUSH! If you're just going to call, you might as well not bet in the first place.
*** RIVER *** [5c Ad Ks Tc] Q♦
Duke50: checks
mischman: bets 1365 and is all-in
Duke50: calls 1365 why call? you have to assume the other guy has a better hand here, and save a few chips. Your opponent has bet/raised you on every card, so the opponent should either have AA, KK, AK or QJ.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mischman: shows [8c Jc] (a straight, Ten to Ace) suckout!
Duke50: shows [Qh Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
mischman collected 6180 from pot
Duke50 said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***

 

[Irexes]

If we are ranking mistakes then Dorkus referring to Misch as the hero in this hand is the biggest.


(sorry matey )

 

[mischman]

*adds Irexes to his hit list
Althought your so far down on the list ill prbly never get to you.