What Now 2

jasondavies

jasondavies

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Event Name: $500 GTD NO LIMIT HOLDEM (#2643016)MNHB Event Started: Tuesday March 21st 5:45:01 PM CST 2006
Event Buy-In: $25+$2.50 ($475 total prize pool)
Game: No Limit Hold 'em
Level V: 100/200 Blinds (25 Minimum Chip)
Average Stack: 12,666.66 (10,000 starting chips)
Remaining Players: 15 (19 started)
Seat 1 : thepoolmanjg starts with 9,175
Seat 4 : jasondavies starts with 9,975
Seat 5 : RandyOrton starts with 27,600
Seat 6 : MadMaxSF starts with 8,075
Seat 7 : maronnate99 starts with 18,825
Seat 8 : steal3rd777 starts with 6,325
Seat 9 : BlaineD starts with 12,550
Seat 10 : kickr008 starts with 5,475
Seat 10 : kickr008 has the dealer button
>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
jasondavies dealt down :8s4::8c4:
thepoolmanjg posts the small blind 100
jasondavies posts the big blind 200
jasondavies: yeah he did, but you did aswell, wrong time thats all RandyOrton calls 200 MadMaxSF folds
maronnate99 calls 200
steal3rd777 folds
BlaineD calls 200
kickr008 calls 200
thepoolmanjg raises 1,200 to 1,400
jasondavies raises 1,500 to 2,900
RandyOrton folds
maronnate99 folds
BlaineD folds
kickr008 folds
thepoolmanjg raises 6,275 to 9,175 and is all-in


WHAT NOW??????
 
Osmann

Osmann

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Fold. At best you in a coinflip, and chances are you are a huge underdog. You probably should have folded in the first place instead of raising him. Pocket 8's is only a mediocore starting hand and can easely be folded preflop.
 
t1riel

t1riel

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First of all, I would have just called after the player before you raised it. If thepoolmanjg still went all-in, fold. Pocket 8's is a medium strength hand. odds are thepoolmanjg has two overcards. Cut your losses now.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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t1riel said:
First of all, I would have just called after the player before you raised it. .
Do you mean folded?

Jason, if you thought you did the right thing raising, you've got to go all-in now. If you don't, you should have folded after opponents raise. You've got yourself stuck in between the 2 now! You've got pot odds to take the coin flip, but if you're behind a bigger pair your in trouble. Read's on opponent is all that can help you make the decision, but I agree with Osmann - see cheap flop with 88, but dont call big raise.
 
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colin_147

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I would imagine he has a pretty big hand here and would fold. He has raised 7 x BB and re-raised you all in after your re-raise. A play like this has to command respect IMO and you have to fold the hand

A call isnt such a bad move (rather than the reraise) but the problem is that the board is almost certainly gonna show overcards and and will prob have to lay down your hand if he bets out, which is almost certain to happen

At least the re-raise tells you that you are almost certainly behind and you can fold your hand in the knowledge you only lost 1/3 of your stack (which still hurts)
 
tenbob

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Calling isnt the worst play either. It depends on exactly what you want to get from this tourney. Do you want to win it ? Do you want to get a decent place and a few bucks for your effort ?

If your going to go for a win then you need to win a few coinflips along the way. As for me with the blinds this low, i would have seen a flop and forget about the re-raise.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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A call's not a bad move? You're going to commit a 7th of your chips with 4 people to act behind you with a pair of 8's? Tenbob, the blinds aren't low, it's just been jacked up to 1,400 to see the flop?! Either go all-in or fold. If you see flop, it comes J, 9, 4 for example and opponent goes all-in what are you going to do then?
 
tenbob

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Im talking about calling the all-in Rob
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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tenbob said:
Im talking about calling the all-in Rob
Oh sorry, but you did say you'll see a flop rather than re-raise - the pot had already been raised substantially so it wasn't a "low blind" call.
 
jasondavies

jasondavies

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i wound up calling and him showing QQ and he hit full house to make matters worse, i was left with like 700 chips or sumin like that which i turned into 4000 again but lost KA to KK, kings held firm, it was a very costly lesson and i know now that i probably should have just folded the 8's to such a powerfull raise like that, whoops my bad
 
ChuckTs

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his open raise should have been enough to make you consider folding the 8s but tough call
like osmann said at best you're a coinflip (vs. 2 overcards), but most probably youre a huge underdog (bigger PP)
 
J

joe234321

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Fold

I like playing 88 a lot but only when the timing is right. The decision is easy; fold after it is raised to you. I would only call this raise for set value but I like to have at least 10 to 1 implied odds to make a call looking for a set. You didn't have those odds so I say fold when it is raised to you. Now if it was folded/called to you, raise away!
 
jasondavies

jasondavies

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what the hell are implied odds? i am a noob as they say on the net, lol, no serious, i have only played for about 1 year and starting to get into odds, what r implied odds
 
J

joe234321

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implied odds

I won't give you a mathematical explanation of implied odds as it may be confusing and I might type it wrong. Implied odds is the number of chips you could make in the hand if you hit it divided by the amount of chips you have to bet. Then you multiply that number by the chance that you will hit the set. If this number is greater than 1 then you are getting good odds.

So,
you and your opponent had about 10,000 chips.
he bets 1200.
You now have to put 1200 in the pot. If your set hits, you can only get another 8800 out of your opponent.
Therefore if we do the math

How much you could make/how much you have to call * chance of hitting set = odds
10,000/1,200 * 1/8 = 1.0416

The number is very slighty above 1 but not enough. You have to calculate in the odds that your opponent may fold and not pay your set off. Also, your opponent may flop a higher set(unlikely but still). Once you adjust this number for those factors it is clear to fold.

One more thing though. If you were in later position and you had one or more callers, calling the bet would be a good move.
 
jasondavies

jasondavies

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joe234321 said:
I won't give you a mathematical explanation of implied odds as it may be confusing and I might type it wrong. Implied odds is the number of chips you could make in the hand if you hit it divided by the amount of chips you have to bet. Then you multiply that number by the chance that you will hit the set. If this number is greater than 1 then you are getting good odds.

So,
you and your opponent had about 10,000 chips.
he bets 1200.
You now have to put 1200 in the pot. If your set hits, you can only get another 8800 out of your opponent.
Therefore if we do the math

How much you could make/how much you have to call * chance of hitting set = odds
10,000/1,200 * 1/8 = 1.0416

The number is very slighty above 1 but not enough. You have to calculate in the odds that your opponent may fold and not pay your set off. Also, your opponent may flop a higher set(unlikely but still). Once you adjust this number for those factors it is clear to fold.

One more thing though. If you were in later position and you had one or more callers, calling the bet would be a good move.
\
thank you, do i do these sums every hand im involved in?
 
tenbob

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jasondavies said:
\
thank you, do i do these sums every hand im involved in?

Ummmmm yep, but it dosnt have to be exact. A quick rough "estimation" is usually sufficent, and this is something that you will get better at as time goes along.

This is the reason why the call isnt the "worst" play, but still not a great one. The best way in my opnion is to play them like 22, hit a set or get off the pot, but if you do manage to hit your set youll get paid off nicely.
 
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