c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
I've been reading tournament hand analysis more lately, and everyone seems to be suggesting a particular move called a "stop & go" quite often. I think they make this recommendation without knowing why, thus there probably needs to be a discussion on the topic.
I'm posting this in hand analysis because its a response to multiple threads that have been posted here, and the people who read this forum will get the most out of it. Plus, the poker strategy section sucks and is full of threads like "How I play JJ?".
Here's my take on why you'd want to stop & go. The play should be used when the following criteria are met:
1) A player is stealing with a wide range. For example, you're near the bubble of a tournament, and a medium sized stack (M=15) raises on the button to 2.5xbb's after being folded to.
2) We have a hand that has decent equity & flops well, but isn't likely to be a favorite if we shove all in & get called. For example, Q♥J♥ or alternatively something like K♣J♠. These hands aren't big under-dogs to the hands he raises his button with, but we're not really happy to get all in preflop. Our opponent won't be making a mistake by calling with most of the hands he raises on the button.
3) If we shove all in preflop, our opponent will most likely be priced into calling. However, if we shove all in on the flop, most flops will miss this player's range, and villain will fold more hands that he would have called a preflop shove with.
4) We're out of position.
Here's a good situation where I think a stop & go could be profitable.
================================
We are currently 85th out of 100 players left, top 50 get paid. Average M = 18.
Blinds = 500/250, Ante = 50, 10 players (Forced bet pot = 1250)
Villain has 19000 chips (M = 15.2) and is on the button
Hero has 6250 chips (M = 5) and is in the big blind.
Hero is dealt J♣ 10♣
Preflop:
7 players fold to Villain. Villain raises to 1250. SB folds. Hero calls 750.
Potsize = 3750
Flop: Q♣4♦7♠ (or anything that isn't really scary)
Hero goes all in for 5000.
================================
The idea is that if we shove preflop, our opponent is getting (5000+3750/5000) 1.75:1 to call, which will price him into calling with a lot of hands.
However, if we offer him the same pot odds on the flop, we'll get more folds. Also, our hand flops lots of draws & can make top pair, so we can often call & let our hand catch up against hands like AJ.
Our opponent's hand range on most flops is going to be hands that missed the flop. If he's raising any ace, any pair, QT+, JT, and some random suited connector trash, then the vast majority of his hands have missed this flop. But even still, most of his hands are ahead of ours. We get him to make a mistake by folding a hand like A♥10♣ that has totally missed the flop, but still has us crushed. Here, we're giving him an opportunity to make a mistake by folding a hand that has us in trouble.
And you don't want to do this with AK or 88. In that scenario, we want our opponent to think he's priced into calling a preflop shove with a hand like A5s, 66, or KQ. We give him the opportunity to make a poker mistake by calling with a worse hand.
Btw, I could be totally wrong here. I'm a pretty mediocre tournament player at best. But this makes sense to me, and that's how I'd use a stop & go play in a MTT.
I'm posting this in hand analysis because its a response to multiple threads that have been posted here, and the people who read this forum will get the most out of it. Plus, the poker strategy section sucks and is full of threads like "How I play JJ?".
Here's my take on why you'd want to stop & go. The play should be used when the following criteria are met:
1) A player is stealing with a wide range. For example, you're near the bubble of a tournament, and a medium sized stack (M=15) raises on the button to 2.5xbb's after being folded to.
2) We have a hand that has decent equity & flops well, but isn't likely to be a favorite if we shove all in & get called. For example, Q♥J♥ or alternatively something like K♣J♠. These hands aren't big under-dogs to the hands he raises his button with, but we're not really happy to get all in preflop. Our opponent won't be making a mistake by calling with most of the hands he raises on the button.
3) If we shove all in preflop, our opponent will most likely be priced into calling. However, if we shove all in on the flop, most flops will miss this player's range, and villain will fold more hands that he would have called a preflop shove with.
4) We're out of position.
Here's a good situation where I think a stop & go could be profitable.
================================
We are currently 85th out of 100 players left, top 50 get paid. Average M = 18.
Blinds = 500/250, Ante = 50, 10 players (Forced bet pot = 1250)
Villain has 19000 chips (M = 15.2) and is on the button
Hero has 6250 chips (M = 5) and is in the big blind.
Hero is dealt J♣ 10♣
Preflop:
7 players fold to Villain. Villain raises to 1250. SB folds. Hero calls 750.
Potsize = 3750
Flop: Q♣4♦7♠ (or anything that isn't really scary)
Hero goes all in for 5000.
================================
The idea is that if we shove preflop, our opponent is getting (5000+3750/5000) 1.75:1 to call, which will price him into calling with a lot of hands.
However, if we offer him the same pot odds on the flop, we'll get more folds. Also, our hand flops lots of draws & can make top pair, so we can often call & let our hand catch up against hands like AJ.
Our opponent's hand range on most flops is going to be hands that missed the flop. If he's raising any ace, any pair, QT+, JT, and some random suited connector trash, then the vast majority of his hands have missed this flop. But even still, most of his hands are ahead of ours. We get him to make a mistake by folding a hand like A♥10♣ that has totally missed the flop, but still has us crushed. Here, we're giving him an opportunity to make a mistake by folding a hand that has us in trouble.
And you don't want to do this with AK or 88. In that scenario, we want our opponent to think he's priced into calling a preflop shove with a hand like A5s, 66, or KQ. We give him the opportunity to make a poker mistake by calling with a worse hand.
Btw, I could be totally wrong here. I'm a pretty mediocre tournament player at best. But this makes sense to me, and that's how I'd use a stop & go play in a MTT.
