Rate My Bluff!!!

[AceHoldOn]

New to the table so new reads. So probably not the best time to bluff. But, I just sensed weakness and went with it. What do you think the least he can call me with here. And how good am I representing a hand here. When I look back at this hand I think this may be too easy too pick off by a good player. What do you guys think?

Full Tilt Poker Game #3345355231: $200 Railbirds.com Freeroll (23697834), Table 26 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:31:32 ET - 2007/08/23
Seat 1: AceHoldOn (14,035)
Seat 2: infestus ludio (1,942)
Seat 3: moncaster01 (2,823)
Seat 4: Lawrence G (8,649)
Seat 5: scottyburr (5,650)
Seat 6: e_ratledge (12,613)
Seat 7: king989 (560), is sitting out
Seat 8: TheDonOfSmiley (16,143)
Seat 9: Roninho07 (8,410)
scottyburr posts the small blind of 100
e_ratledge posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AceHoldOn [Ah Jd]
king989 folds
TheDonOfSmiley calls 200
Roninho07 folds
scottyburr: lol
AceHoldOn raises to 850
infestus ludio folds
moncaster01 folds
Lawrence G has 15 seconds left to act
Lawrence G folds
scottyburr folds
e_ratledge raises to 1,500
TheDonOfSmiley calls 1,300
AceHoldOn calls 650
*** FLOP *** [6c Qh 3h]
e_ratledge has 15 seconds left to act
e_ratledge bets 600
TheDonOfSmiley folds
AceHoldOn raises to 2,600
e_ratledge has 15 seconds left to act
e_ratledge calls 2,000
*** TURN *** [6c Qh 3h] [5h]
e_ratledge bets 2,200
AceHoldOn raises to 9,935, and is all in
e_ratledge has 15 seconds left to act

 

[skoldpadda]

Not a great spot to bluff since villain is getting about 3:1 for any reasonable hand. Besides, it's really a semi-bluff with the nut flush draw and possible Ace being good if he has KQ or the like.

 

[AceHoldOn]

Not a great spot to bluff since villain is getting about 3:1 for any reasonable hand. Besides, it's really a semi-bluff with the nut flush draw and possible Ace being good if he has KQ or the like.

skold, that's a good point, and something I need to take into consideration in the future. What do you think villian's calling range is with 3:1?

 

[Jack Daniels]

IMO it's horrible. Not to mention that you've decided to do this against the other two largest stacks at the table. The PF isn't so bad I suppose, but you need to get away from this hand on the flop.

I realize this is a freeroll, but...You raised 4.25x BB PF and were reraised the same amt (min-raise) by the 3rd stack. A min reraise from a large stack often indicates real strength, not feigned. Granted he's OOP, but that only degrades it a little. If he was weak OOP, I'd expect a larger reraise. Then to make things worse you actually get a cold caller behind two raisers.

Now the flop drops and totally misses you. Following this miss, the PF reraiser bets into you with a bet that screams "I really hit that flop, please call my value bet" (his betting $600 into a $4500 pot is either a horrific mistake--sure as heck not a blocking bet--or it's a value bet by a real hand).

I'll say this though, if he doesn't have a real hand here, something worth betting, then I like his bluff attempt better.

 

[skoldpadda]

Any queen or better hand obv, possibly 99-JJ. From the PF action and lead bet into you, I think you have to give him credit for such a hand.

 

[blankoblanco]

Full Tilt Poker Game #3345355231: $200 Railbirds.com Freeroll

noooooooooo

bluffing in freerolls is usually a losing proposition, especially with all the odds this dude will be getting. I'll give you a bit of credit if it worked, but I think it's a bad spot nonetheless

 

[AceHoldOn]

IMO it's horrible. Not to mention that you've decided to do this against the other two largest stacks at the table. The PF isn't so bad I suppose, but you need to get away from this hand on the flop.

I realize this is a freeroll, but...You raised 4.25x BB PF and were reraised the same amt (min-raise) by the 3rd stack. A min reraise from a large stack often indicates real strength, not feigned. Granted he's OOP, but that only degrades it a little. If he was weak OOP, I'd expect a larger reraise. Then to make things worse you actually get a cold caller behind two raisers.

Now the flop drops and totally misses you. Following this miss, the PF reraiser bets into you with a bet that screams "I really hit that flop, please call my value bet" (his betting $600 into a $4500 pot is either a horrific mistake--sure as heck not a blocking bet--or it's a value bet by a real hand).

I'll say this though, if he doesn't have a real hand here, something worth betting, then I like his bluff attempt better.

Looking back at this hand, I agree with pretty much everything you say. Bad spot to bluff, especially against another big stack. I think the turn push was worst play of all. And that if I wanted to go with it I should have made the play on the flop, in the form of a bigger raise or something.

I will say though, that min. reraise, is not necessarily an indicator of strength, but a lot of time just a raise to find out whether a hand is good. I'd say only about 30% of the time I am faced with a min. reraise it is QQ+, A,k+. This combined with the weak flop lead into two opponents, is more of a sign of weakness not strength, and felt like I could get opponent to lay down something not as strong as top pair/overpair.

I posted the hand because the opponent made the right call with 10,10, but thought I had represented a strong enough hand to get him to laydown. And thinking about the hand some more, I think good players can pick this off with 99-JJ too easily. So, in conclusion, I don't think I will be trying anything stupid like this anymore.

 

[AceHoldOn]

noooooooooo

bluffing in freerolls is usually a losing proposition, especially with all the odds this dude will be getting. I'll give you a bit of credit if it worked, but I think it's a bad spot nonetheless

Hey, what's the point in playing freerolls if you can't have a little fun?

I do agree with you though: Don't bluff in freerolls!

 

[Jack Daniels]

I will say though, that min. reraise, is not necessarily an indicator of strength, but a lot of time just a raise to find out whether a hand is good.

Maybe this is somehow true in a freeroll, but in real money game I would have to disagree. Minraising in hopes of gaining information is useless. Nearly any two cards can come along on minraise, so it really tells you nothing. All it does is serve to build the pot without actually giving you any information to work with.

Here's a good previous thread to read: Stop minraising

 

[aliengenius]

I should have made the play on the flop

I want to make a few points:

1. a bet/raise of less than the bet/raise on the previous street is a HUGE sign of weakness. A good player would NEVER bet less than the previous street, even with the nuts (although a poor player might try to be "sneaky" and min bet).

In this regard I kind of like your line, although I do agree that you probably need to make your move on the flop (because of number three, below).

2. a min raise of a "real" (real = 2/3 pot or more) bet is usually a sign of strength.

3. some donks can NEVER lay down a pair; especially if they think [T T] is a monster enough to REraise preflop you have very little chance of getting them to fold it to a non-scary (only one overcard) board (and especially if they have the lead in the hand). This is a read that you need to get right quick, and one that will be instrumental in determining the correct play of this hand.