QQ vs KK, online

[chrisash]

Sorry, I don't usually play online or I would post the full log, but I'm on william hill and I don't think it's retroactive if I change it in options...

Basically, late position, couple of callers, mainly folders. I hold QQ, raise 10x BB. BB calls... flop comes, 3 7 10. BB goes all in, I call (I am big stack), nothing interesting on turn/river. He shows KK, I show QQ, he wins on top pair.

Any doubts on my play? With a 3 7 10 on the table and no reraise from BB preflop, I don't see what else I could do.

 

[tenbob]

Without stack sizes, reads, blind sizes, and stakes, its really difficult to see what to do. Did you pot committ yourself pre-flop ?? In which case the KK played fine, and so did you. Raise a little less pre-flop, it can be easier to get away from these hands. Looks like a cooler to me .

 

[chrisash]

Without stack sizes, reads, blind sizes, and stakes, its really difficult to see what to do. Did you pot committ yourself pre-flop ?? In which case the KK played fine, and so did you. Raise a little less pre-flop, it can be easier to get away from these hands. Looks like a cooler to me .

Appreciate the comments... although assuming I'm understanding you right, are stakes relevant? Surely we should be playing the same irrespective of stakes? Was a $20 MTT, but I play £50 ($100) live all the time.

 

[tenbob]

Appreciate the comments... although assuming I'm understanding you right, are stakes relevant? Surely we should be playing the same irrespective of stakes? Was a $20 MTT, but I play £50 ($100) live all the time.

Stakes usually have a huge bearing. PPl will call with much less in a $1 sit and go than in a $22 or $200 game. Having said that, there are idiots at every level. Remember if someone cold calls a 10xbb raise then they have to have a hand.

This just looks like one of them hands.

 

[chrisash]

Stakes usually have a huge bearing. PPl will call with much less in a $1 sit and go than in a $22 or $200 game. Having said that, there are idiots at every level. Remember if someone cold calls a 10xbb raise then they have to have a hand.

This just looks like one of them hands.

I suppose that's invariably true, I just thought it was a reflection on my play. Apologies.

With regard to the other questions... reads - I'd just been moved to this table, so no idea really. Blinds - 100/200, my stack gave me about 70 BBs, and stack size, I was big stack on the table and my opponent was second stack.

I am actually still in this tournament, incidentally. Not quite sure how, after losing that much of my stack.

 

[stormswa]

why the hell would you raise 10x the big blind? thats just silly.

 

[chrisash]

why the hell would you raise 10x the big blind? thats just silly.

Maybe. What should I have done?

I'm winning an awful lot lately, but I love learning more. From my experience I limp with high draw hands and shove with pocket pairs, however in this case and at this stage I thought I should get value from my QQ. In retrospect that was dangerous on a new table with no reads on the players.

 

[stormswa]

Maybe. What should I have done?

I'm winning an awful lot lately, but I love learning more. From my experience I limp with high draw hands and shove with pocket pairs, however in this case and at this stage I thought I should get value from my QQ. In retrospect that was dangerous on a new table with no reads on the players.

because there is just no reason for it, 2.5 to 3 will be better. We dont want to drive out hands we have dominated like JJ down or KJ or QJ or even AK. You are only getting called by hands that beat you with a 10x BB raise.

put yourself on the other end of this, would you call 10x with JJ? I know I wouldnt.

look at the flop with ten high, we would get lots of value from hands like AT, JJ, KT. Plus we might be able to get away from it on flop only investing like 3 big blinds instead of 10 or we might have better idea where villian is at.

as for shoving pairs with 70bb stacks, thats pretty horrible.

 

[jeffred1111]

1. Raise less, when we get called by someone and the flop comes out like this, we are behind to KK, AA and TT, while only domintaing JJ and being in front of AK. I can't see any other hand that will call this, and even TT, JJ or AK are suspicious. AK will reraise here 99% of the time.

2. Don't shove this flop, ever. You are deep. Put a bet (wich will need to be large due to your monstrous raise) and fold to any resistance. The way the hand is played, you are begging to get outplayed (raising too much can often be as nefast as not raising enough). Open raising 10BB in cash games sometimes is a good play since you are getting good implied odds if you hit hard, doing so in a tournament is silly since you can't reload and will need to put a big dent in your stack to see all 5 cards/proctect your hand.

 

[stormswa]

in red

1. Raise less, when we get called by someone and the flop comes out like this, we are behind to KK, AA and TT, while only domintaing JJ and being in front of AK. I can't see any other hand that will call this, and even TT, JJ or AK are suspicious. AK will reraise here 99% of the time.


forget what we are ahead to and behind, we are going to get value with this flop from a lot of pairs besides JJ, this flop is very dry and we can extract value from any pair.

2. Don't shove this flop, ever. You are deep. Put a bet (wich will need to be large due to your monstrous raise) and fold to any resistance. The way the hand is played, you are begging to get outplayed (raising too much can often be as nefast as not raising enough). Open raising 10BB in cash games sometimes is a good play since you are getting good implied odds if you hit hard, doing so in a tournament is silly since you can't reload and will need to put a big dent in your stack to see all 5 cards/proctect your hand.

he did not shove all in he called the all in.