QQ in a 6 seater Part 1

M

mischman

Legend
This is going to come in 2 parts, yall give your thoughts on preflop and in a few days ill post the flop. This is like the 5 hand so no reads.


pokerstars Game #713405: Tournament #364619, $12+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/11/22 - 21:00:48 (ET)
Table '36461901 1' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mischman (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: buckeye1al (1380 in chips)
Seat 3: LOU2121 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: Russ@REW (1600 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: KKKID38 (1460 in chips)
Seat 6: spazzy (1560 in chips)
spazzy: posts small blind 10
mischman: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [Qd Qc]
buckeye1al: calls 20
LOU2121: calls 20
Russ@REW: folds
KKKID38: raises 60 to 80
spazzy: folds
mischman: raises 140 to 220
buckeye1al: raises 480 to 700
LOU2121: folds
KKKID38: calls 620
Russ@REW has returned
mischman:???????
 
XxGKBxX

XxGKBxX

Guest
id call depending what there stats are. BUt it looks realy early in the event. damn idk what id do. So tough to decide. Someones gotta have AA KK or AK. mehhhh id fold it. not worth it that early into the event
 
Tammy

Tammy

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I think if you're not willing to get all your chips in preflop with QQ, then maybe you're playing the wrong game? These $13 6-seaters on Stars are usually donkfests. I'm pushing here everytime and watch in awe as 6/7suited takes down the hole pot. On the river. :p
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I agree; the $12s are reeeeally loose, and these guys hand ranges could be anywhere. It's a push or fold situation, and I say push. Though that limp-raise is scary-lookin.....
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
I think if you're not willing to get all your chips in preflop with QQ, then maybe you're playing the wrong game? These $13 6-seaters on Stars are usually donkfests. I'm pushing here everytime and watch in awe as 6/7suited takes down the hole pot. On the river. :p

I agree; the $12s are reeeeally loose, and these guys hand ranges could be anywhere. It's a push or fold situation, and I say push. Though that limp-raise is scary-lookin.....

The limp raise is a little scary.

Can he push here or is the betting capped?
 
M

myxiplx

Rock Star
Bleh, I'm not great at tournament play but that's horrible. I'd be nervous of AA / KK but I don't let that stop me playing Q's in a cash game, I'm a lot more cautious in the early stages of a tourny though.

My first instinct is to call here and push if the flop suits my hand. Any A or K on the flop would mean I'd fold to action from the others, it's just too likely I'm beat. However if it's a 'safe' flop I'd push all in. I may loose to AA or KK but this early on you'll see moves with all kinds of hands so I'd play the odds and gamble.

Thinking about the play (and I'm probably over-analysing), the limp raise screams Ax to me (and if it's someone doing that with KK or AA I'll just make a note & take my $12 back off them later). Bucky's a bit lower on chips too which makes me think lag? Kkkid's call is interesting, we've seen a little aggression here, followed up by a flat call. I'd be suspicious of a good player who's gonna slowplay the aggressive types if the flop hits their hand.

With your raise and kkkid's call I'd probably expect Bucky to push here with AA or KK. Would either of these hands really want a 3 way pot? Any pair is strong 6 way so I'd put bucky as a strong player with a good but not great hand (lower pair, suited connectors, KA) who's going to try to outplay you on the flop.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Calling such a large portion of your stack off here is terrible. This is obviously a push/fold situation, and the limp-reraise into two raisers absolutely screams either strength or complete idiot.

I probably ditch it.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
I don't play the 6-seaters, but still, it does look very much like you're up against AA. I'll often find myself calling or pushing here out of curiosity and because I don't like being bluffed, but I think the best move is to fold. (With a caller, you'll probably get to see what the other guy has anyway, which might swing it for me...) No rational player will re-raise here from early position for half his stack with suited connnectors. It's possible he has a medium pair (Jacks / Tens) but I'd say he has AA.
 
Tammy

Tammy

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I'm pushing here everytime and watch in awe as 6/7suited takes down the hole pot. On the river. :p
No rational player will re-raise here from early position for half his stack with suited connnectors.
Of course I was kidding about the 6/7 suited thing, but I was using that as an over-exaggeration of the really bad plays I've seen at these tables over the last two weeks I've been playing them. People will push, or even go over the top with low pockets, and yes, I've even seen the suited connectors. But perhaps I need to learn to give my opponents the benefit of the doubt more often...at times it can get me into trouble. (But I'm still pushing here. :) )
 
gord962

gord962

Legend
Calling such a large portion of your stack off here is terrible. This is obviously a push/fold situation, and the limp-reraise into two raisers absolutely screams either strength or complete idiot.

I probably ditch it.
^
^
What he said.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
In all seriousness, upon reflection if this was the average idiot 'making a move' with crap, he'd push when the action gets back to him. The fact he instead raised near enough half his stack total is far scarier to me than if he had pushed, because it seems to suggest that despite all the raising going on he is still wants action.

I don't see what he does this with apart from AA/KK.
 
Irexes

Irexes

Legend
I absolutely agree with the comment that rereraise is more scarier than a push. Limp under the gun with a rereraise (if that's even a word) not all in, he's pretty much saying he has Aces or Kings.

HOWEVER... at this buy-in he could easily be mesmerised by a pretty pair of 8s or 9s or something purty like JQo. His thoughts might be that everyone else is trying to steal and muahahaha he's not being pushed of his "monster", and besides Gus Hansen does this kind of thing with 73o and he's really cool!!! Or he just might be drunk.

So what's the probability of each? and I'm assuming the options are push or fold a call is a nightmare move as it makes it harder to stack them and easier to stack yourself.

Of course even if he's beaten the other guy could have AA, KK (or AK), though it's less likely, he's certainly got some sort of hand from a mid-pair upwards.

So completely out of thin air and based on experience of this kind of thing.

Chance of him being an idiot with <QQ 40%
Chance of him having AA or KK 45%
Chance of him having AK 4.5% (unlikely it's not fashionable to limp AK like it is AA and KK)
Chance of him having QQ 0.5%

Add in a 20% chance of "the other guy" having AA-KK with 10% AK and it's not looking pretty.

That's pretty much how I approach these things (albeit much more on the fly), remove "the other guy" or get some more info on villain about his play, or higher blinds or a smaller stack and the %ages change, but I think it's a sound way to make decisions.

Of course all the numbers above are correct at the time of publication and
can go down as well as up.
 
Tammy

Tammy

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I rest my case...:D

Check this out:

PokerStars Game #7150433343: Tournament #36548486, $12+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/11/24 - 00:56:17 (ET)
Table '36548486 1' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: LD27 (2735 in chips)
Seat 3: juiceeQ (1700 in chips)
Seat 4: chode777 (3585 in chips)
Seat 5: tbone512 (980 in chips)
chode777: posts small blind 15
tbone512: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to juiceeQ [Td Tc]
LD27: folds
juiceeQ: raises 90 to 120
chode777: calls 105
tbone512: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [2h 2c 4s]
chode777: checks
tbone512: checks
juiceeQ: bets 300
chode777: raises 3165 to 3465 and is all-in
tbone512: folds
juiceeQ: calls 1280 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2h 2c 4s] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [2h 2c 4s Jc] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chode777: shows [7c 4c] (a full house, Deuces full of Fours)
juiceeQ: shows [Td Tc] (a full house, Deuces full of Tens)
juiceeQ collected 3520 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3520 | Rake 0
Board [2h 2c 4s Jc 2s]
Seat 1: LD27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: juiceeQ (button) showed [Td Tc] and won (3520) with a full house, Deuces full of Tens
Seat 4: chode777 (small blind) showed [7c 4c] and lost with a full house, Deuces full of Fours
Seat 5: tbone512 (big blind) folded on the Flop
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
^^^ V. important to play those backdoor flush draws aggressively when board is paired.

But on the other hand...
***** Hand History for Game 5456219582 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny: 30481954 Level: 3 Blinds(50/100) - Thursday, November 23, 16:52:04 ET 2006
Table Table 126127 (real money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: OtaeguiA ( $2230 )
Seat 2: Freddyflop ( $1440 )
Seat 3: paianjenul ( $1091 )
Seat 4: xfg68 ( $3732 )
Seat 6: north88inc ( $8297 )
Seat 10: goddi3 ( $1360 )
Seat 8: Bombjack_x ( $1850 )
Trny: 30481954 Level: 3
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bombjack_x [ Q♦ Q♥ ]
north88inc raises [225]
Bombjack_x raises [450]
goddi3 folds.
OtaeguiA folds.
Freddyflop folds.
paianjenul folds.
xfg68 folds.
north88inc raises [3595]
Bombjack_x is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6♦, 9♥, 4♠ ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ A♥ ]
** Dealing River ** [ A♠ ]
north88inc shows [ A♦ A♣ ]four of a kind, Aces.
Bombjack_x shows [ Q♦ Q♥ ]two pairs, Aces and Queens.
north88inc wins 1970 chips from side pot #1 with four of a kind, Aces.
north88inc wins 3850 chips from the main pot with four of a kind, Aces.

If only I followed my own advice. :rolleyes:
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

Rock Star
My immediate reaction was: FOLD.

pot odds are over 4:1 at this point. I don't think you can fold here.

I don't think you have any fold equity here, ruling out a raise/push.

With 2 other people prepared to play, I'm reasonably sure there's an AA or KK out there (which puts you 4:1 dog headsup).

But there's one other point to think about. Since 2 other players are very eager, I think you may find that holding QQ is actually leaning things in your favour somewhat because I have a feeling they're holding each others' outs.

So, on reflection, I think your best course is to see the flop, and hope for a set.
If a Queen falls, check-raise all-in. If not, Fold like an origami swan.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
It's an obvious fold or push situation but your odds are not good that you'll win. I would fold here. At least one player probably has an overcard or worse, has one of your Queens. It's early in the sit n go so I'll wait for another opportunity. At least by folding, you'll be able to get some idea what style the players are playing.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Honestly, I'd fold, and I've actually folded QQ in similar situations before. You're virtually guaranteed to be up against at least AK, in which case you're not in particularly great shape, although ahead. But AA or KK seems almost inevitable in this situation. I can't fathom many other hands this would be done with.
 
G

Guin36

Guest
In a tournament I don't mind if I bust out really early... bubbling out of one really sucks. Get your money all in here and watch as you are against AK and AQ!

Nothing more fun than getting a huge stack really early and now you can really pick on the guys still standing.
 
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