Pocket Rockets: what would you do in this situation?

TheCooler

TheCooler

Rising Star
Situation: first level of a $11 single table SnG at Party. Table has been passive so far, not too much raises before the flop. 9 players still remaining. Blinds 20/40

I'm in middle position and have AA. Two limpers in front of me, I raise to 160 (4 BB). The button calls and so does the big blind. The pot now is 580.
The flop comes Qh 3h Kc.
The big blind bets 200 (about 40% of the pot), I raise to 400. The button calls my raise and the big blind moves all-in. I have to call 1340 for a pot of then 4260. The big blind has me covered so if I loose I will be out of the tourney.

I gave both my opponents hands like AA, AK, AQ, KK, QQ, JJ or some medium pair like TT or 99. Another AA is a split, Kings and Ladies just made a set and have me beaten. I beat AK, AQ, JJ, TT, 99, ... and all hands like Kx or Qx except K3/Q3 which just made 2 pair. Pocket 3s would also have made a set now and have me beaten but I don't think someone called my raise with pocket treys.

So what would you do in this situation? Call and move all-in or fold the aces?
 
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ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Considering your great pot odds and the fact that this is Party, I call. Quickly. Then cry when they show me KQ.

But seriously, you have most hands beat, and those you don't have beat you still have outs against. I don't see a player at Party not reraising KK or QQ preflop (and definitely not AA unless they're trapping), so I think we can safely discount them as possibilities. Hell this could be just a draw.

Oh and raise more on the flop. This is a draw-heavy board, and you want to make 'em pay to draw. I probably just shove into his lead of 200.

Is this really your range for your caller at a $11 SnG at Party? I don't play there often, but through about 15 SnGs I've never seen any player come even close to being that tight.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Push all in and pray!!!

I`m with Chuck, I would have gone all in after the flop after the 200 raise.

I am like you - I sometimes think too muck. If I have AK and the flop is AA5 and the other guy raises I`m convinced he will have pocket 5`s!!!

Not even knowing the guys, the raises seem to indicate they are holding Ak/ AQ and don`t like the heart draw, or they are on a heart draw. Is one of your Ace`s a heart? If so, more reason to push, even if its runner runner.

I think the button could be holding 33 - with position they might have wanted to gamble. The bb could have 33 - already invested in the pot and see your raise as two overs (AK, AQ, etc)
 
A

AceZWylD

Visionary
I don't like your play pre-flop. With a bunch of limpers, I'm not understanding why not make an aggressive move like going all in to take the pot down and avoid confrontation. It's not the greatest flop, but it is enough to be scary, as 2 pair, sets, and draws come into play. I'd rather take a small pot with aces preflop then lost a big pot with aces because I was trying to maximize their value. Most PP only have strong value pre-flop.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I don't like your play pre-flop. With a bunch of limpers, I'm not understanding why not make an aggressive move like going all in to take the pot down and avoid confrontation.


...so you open raise all in for your ~2000 chip stack at 20/40 in an unraised pot?
 
C

crash7

Guest
Personally I dont really like the pre flop or post flop play from the AA. With two limpers in the pot plus the blinds there is already about 3 1/2 blinds in there. You raising 4 blinds with AA is just a pot sweetener giving everyone behind you 2:1 on their money and should any of them call the previous players are going to get even better odds to continue. If two people in front of me come in from early position they likely have a hand decent enough to play for a raise and I want to put pressure on everyone behind me and hope that I can isolate those early position players with my AA. In this scenario I would want to ruin pot odds for everyone behind me but anyone who already limped would still get close to 4:1 on their money. So pre flop here I probably would have raised more like 6-8x the BB. This gives me a chance to just take down the dead money without being challenged as well as giving me good stealing opportunities post flop as I have represented such a strong hand. Post flop when the player in front of you raises they bet the minimum. This is a sucker play. Usually this is to gain info from their opponents or to sucker someone into re raising into their monster hand trips or two pair. However you only double raise them. Extremely weak play here. You should at the very least bet 3-4x their minimum raise. If they are willing to go over the top you may be able to fold to two pair or trips. By betting just double you dont really gain much information about how much they actually like their hand and they can move in over the top just cause you look weak. On top of that anyone on a straight or flush draw behind you is getting great odds to continue drawing. Even if they have a pair theyre getting odds to draw out on you. With a flop like this and that many players in the hand YOU want to be the one that pulls the trigger first. You need to isolate your callers and put pressure on hands that could potentially break you. If you push all in and get called by trips or two pair then you can blame yourself for an impropper preflop play. Just my thoughts. But in a micro limit game in the first level its likely theyre just weaker players and I probably would call this all in with AA and take my chances.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
...so you open raise all in for your ~2000 chip stack at 20/40 in an unraised pot?

At this level Chuck, u must know yourself that a lot of ppl with KK, QQ, AK possibly KQs, AQ, AJ, JJ, 1010 will call your all in at this level. The table may have only been passive because they simply have not had a hand worth playing!!!

I do agree that it is a horrible state to be in (2000 chips in to win 580). The way I play this is to raise at least the pot size or more pre flop - In this scenario the 160 raise would have been 200+ raise. Other option is to limp and just flat call - then if that flop hits its an easier laydown.

I know none of the above is perfect, but it is the way it is!!!
 
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alan1983

Visionary
Its a Sng, 1st level, youre holding AA, i say call, if you hit youre set for the rest of the whole game.I think a lot of hands would go allin, from AK ro KJ to draws to...

Of course they could very well have KQ, but you could still pull through if board pairs up.
 
TheCooler

TheCooler

Rising Star
Thank you very much for your insightful comments.

I did not see that point in my own analysis of the hand so thank you very much for telling me how bad my pre-flop play was and that my pre-flop raise was just not big enough to eliminate marginal hands. I just ignored the two limpers in front of me and the fact that there were 140 already in the pot when the action came to me. My small pot-size raise had the opposite effect of what I wanted to accomplish giving all the remaining players good odds to call my raise. I also aggree that I should have raised more post-flop. If the big blind then came over the top with his all-in move I probably would have folded my aces. I thought I was showing strength throughout the hand but I understand now that the other players were not seeing strength but just two marginal raises from my side.

To resolve the problem: I called the All-In and so did the button. Button shows KQ for two pair, big blind shows pocket treys for trips. Another Q on the river gave the button full house and he won the pot.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
I wish I did not see the last post before I was going to chime in. I would have folded. There is alot of time left and you have not shortstacked yourself. KQ is a limping hand in almost everyones book online.

With a raise, you reraise, smooth called and then an all-in, I would give someone credit enough to have your AA beat.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
At this level Chuck, u must know yourself that a lot of ppl with KK, QQ, AK possibly KQs, AQ, AJ, JJ, 1010 will call your all in at this level. The table may have only been passive because they simply have not had a hand worth playing!!!

I do agree that it is a horrible state to be in (2000 chips in to win 580). The way I play this is to raise at least the pot size or more pre flop - In this scenario the 160 raise would have been 200+ raise. Other option is to limp and just flat call - then if that flop hits its an easier laydown.

I know none of the above is perfect, but it is the way it is!!!

I don't mind a bigger raise PF, but considering this table has been 'playing passively', pushing is just terrible! Had this been an MTT where people are crazy about getting their chips in the middle, I wouldn't argue with it. But this is a STT where people won't necessarily call with KQs or similar hands....then again I might be underestimating the donkness of Party's players...

You've got a 140 chip pot (not 580) and you're raising 2000 chips. It just sounds like a play from someone who both is scared of getting beat and can't lay down aces postflop. I both raise more preflop here (though not all in...) to probably 200 or 300, then see what happens. As I would play it, I would raise more on the flop too. Minraising is a pretty poor play.

p.s. didn't notice the smooth-call from button...though this could mean anything at party. Set to KJ for TP, JT for a draw, heart draw....
 
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