Please help with this hand

[Twosevenos]

Hero stack: 7160
Villain: 21000
Blinds 125/250

I'm on the button and I get dealt AKo
UTG+1 raises to 1k
It folds to me
I 3-bet to 2200
SB and BB fold
Villain shoves
I call

Before I say what villain has, did I do anything wrong?

 

[dealio96]

Once you 3bet such a large opening raise, you're asking to flip for stacks... you could obv just flat here(to try and keep the pot somewhat controlled), or3bet. but once he 4bet jams, you have a decision to make, based on player reads/information.

 

[NightHawk]

In my humble opinion, villain must either have pocket pair or AK, AQ at the least.

AK is a tie.
AQ is rare but you dominate.

22-QQ is a 50/50 so prepare for a lot of variance.

KK/AA dominate you.

I guess the question is what range do you think the villain would
A. Open UTG with
B. Shove all in with

And then determine if he has you beat or if you want to flip a coin for the stack.

 

[lukeellul92]

Once you 3bet such a large opening raise, you're asking to flip for stacks... you could obv just flat here(to try and keep the pot somewhat controlled), or3bet. but once he 4bet jams, you have a decision to make, based on player reads/information.

It's not that big of a raise that the villain made though? Only 4bb...

However I agree, you could've called here and seen a flop for cheaper.
The issue is, the villain has you covered, and when you 3bet to 2200 leaving yourself only under 5k chips, if he shoves, you're not really going to fold are you? You've committed 1/4 of your stack roughly preflop, and also leaving yourself shortstacked (under 20bb)...

I feel the villain figured you'd call a 4bet shove, and I feel like this is what he wanted.
On the other hand though, AK is perfectly fine to go into an all in pot heads up...

 

[EvertonGirl]

This player either wanted to look strong or has a strong as he OR 4x the bb UTG.

I would of flatted here and see what the flop brings.

Did you have any reads on villain?

 

[bremensha]

after your 3-bet you have been comitted to the pot. Before acting first you should ask yourself why someone is making a 4 BB raise UTG This promisses at last a top 5 hand. So if you believe him you should pass.

 

[rrph3rtbkr]

Firstly, villain. open with 4 x raise from the early pos,I have to look many factor before ranging him,what type of player he his,is he tight,or aggresive,or he his bullying the table,does he doing this kind of play before,opening so strongly from early position and showing big strong hands,etc most importantly if he his tight,then normally he will open with AA or KK,if he his loose, then pair below QQ,JJ,TT,AK s/o, not below when he reraise u after u reraise him 2.2x, otherwise if he his maniac, your call is very gud,I will take chance with him with any pair Upto TT,AK-AT,KQ-JT s/o,. It also depend what kind of image u have on table,tight or aggressive,have u ever fold when u reraise and somebody come over the top and put u all in,. If u have tight image and he came with medicore hand and ur play is correct, ur getting good odds to play, nd if you have crumbled before the above said thing,he his just bullying you bcse of previous action everything depend upon the read u have, if he his a solid player, I will fold here, and if his agro its a call,.

 

[hffjd2000]

I would flat likewise because of what the pot odds bring.

I know Im underdog pre but would dramatically change if I hit the flop.

 

[GreatLeslie]

I like to think this hand all depends on the situation. If you're playing in a tournament on a final table then this probably wouldn't be the best move, but if this was at an area where you were already in the money then it's definitely worth a call.

 

[Ambur]

How could we possible say that 4x is huge bet utg (given info) - All we know that the villain is super deep 84bb!

As played: Actually i would never fold here, even given info! (i am not happy, but if you make that 3bet you have to have game plan). Ak plays vs any range pretty good!


To OP: Give info about structure, dynamics etc.

 

[EvertonGirl]

How could we possible say that 4x is huge bet utg (given info) - All we know that the villain is super deep 84bb!

As played: Actually i would never fold here, even given info! (i am not happy, but if you make that 3bet you have to have game plan). Ak plays vs any range pretty good!


To OP: Give info about structure, dynamics etc.

Because some people will often 3x the raise which is a standard raise, but sometimes they will raise 4x when they have top 5% or just want to look strong. Many pro's will only use the standard raises and Dan the man says raising 5x+ is a mistake that a lot of bad players or noobs make. To me that is why 4x the bb is a huge bet UTG.

 

[dealio96]

How could we possible say that 4x is huge bet utg (given info) -

So what is a huge bet, 6x?

I never said it was a huge bet... I said it was a "large bet" bc it is when u compare it to a standard 2.5-3x raise.

Also, you make it sound as if you're never folding AK pre. Obviously it could go anyway in this scenario bc he only has 25bbs, so I really wouldn't blame him for calling a 4bet jam. But If you're sitting 50-75bbs deep in a tourney, there is no need to try and gii everytime you have AK (gotta love the peeps that think AK is the nuts lol) Yes. it plays well against the majority of someone's range(but not their entire range) So... try to keep in mind, it's just ace high (with some flip equity.)

Question for you: So, if that's a Nit raising 4x utg, are you still 3 betting and calling a 4bet jam? Curious to see if you're still stacking off here.

 

[ilostmysoul]

Hero stack: 7160
Villain: 21000
Blinds 125/250

I'm on the button and I get dealt AKo
UTG+1 raises to 1k
It folds to me
I 3-bet to 2200
SB and BB fold
Villain shoves
I call

Before I say what villain has, did I do anything wrong?

Do you have any reads on him? If he's a tight, overall strong player, for him to be raising from Early Position, he has a Premium range (I'd say TT+, AK, KQs, maybe the occasional AJs, or AQs).
He raises to 4BB. It's not an usual range from Early Position, and it also sends me some red flags. 4BBs are usually reserved (from my experience) for blind stealing or any other positional play and people following BSS (Big Stack Strategy) in Cash Games. They are also used for people who raise to 4BB using the top of their range (the one I said above), and 3BB with strong (but weaker) hands, like 99+, KJ, AT.
So, here's my decision:

I'm used to microstakes tournaments and freerolls. Most players have no regard for position and ranges and they are loose regardless of where they are. In these tournaments, I'm placing my AK ahead of their range. Since they raised to 1k, I'm raising it to 3k, and because 3k is over 1/3 of my stack, I'm shoving. I don't even get to make a decision regarding his all-in.
If I take him to be smart, I fold. He's not raising to 4BB EP with a worse hand than mine, and I'm either behind or in a flip. I also can't raise him without being committed: if I do decide to raise, I'm shoving, because I'm short stacked.

As a final thought, let's assume we have 15k chips. Play proceeds as you said: he raises from UTG+1 to 4BB, and I decide to re-raise, because I'm deep and for some reason (this depends on your reads) I think his range isn't that strong. Then, as soon as he 4-bets me all-in, it's now a clear fold. Although his "Pre-Flop Raise from UTG" range bight have been weak, his 4-bet (shove) range is not. Especially consider he's very deep stacked. Nobody that deep stacked would go all-in with worse than QQ. It's just another red flag adding up to the ones we already had.

 

[PBG789]

There have been lots of good points raised so I'm not going to go into any detail. The main point I want to make is that when you are going to 3-bet you have to have a plan for what you are going to do next. That's why you need some info on the villain and his range because they are not always going to do what you want them to.

 

[11012015]

Everything was done correctly. : Улыбка:

 

[Ambur]

So what is a huge bet, 6x?

I never said it was a huge bet... I said it was a "large bet" bc it is when u compare it to a standard 2.5-3x raise.

Also, you make it sound as if you're never folding AK pre. Obviously it could go anyway in this scenario bc he only has 25bbs, so I really wouldn't blame him for calling a 4bet jam. But If you're sitting 50-75bbs deep in a tourney, there is no need to try and gii everytime you have AK (gotta love the peeps that think AK is the nuts lol) Yes. it plays well against the majority of someone's range(but not their entire range) So... try to keep in mind, it's just ace high (with some flip equity.)

Question for you: So, if that's a Nit raising 4x utg, are you still 3 betting and calling a 4bet jam? Curious to see if you're still stacking off here.

I said as played! - i did not gived information what will be the best play in this situation (imo), since there is lack of information OP. Answering your question if nit made that bet, i would probably flat it pre decent % of time and reevaluate the situation, since i am in position!

As played readless and no info about dynamics+structure, i would definetly call his 4bet shove! No other option for me otherwise i will lose money! I have invest already into pot almost 1/3 my stack - i am basically pot commited at that point (as played). I am not going anywhere preflop given stack size like hero has if i decided to 3bet jam! - Also i expect to see there a lot of top range where we are slightly underdog or whatever, but keep in mind his range can be not that strong that often to make here a hero fold in this paricular situation, given info!

 

[Ambur]

So what is a huge bet, 6x?

I am not going into details about personal preference+i do not see point of doing it!

Answering for your question, we do not have information about villain and his ability+tendents, therefore we do not have any info to rely on that this 4x open EP is huge! This could be easyly standard opening EP, since i remember times ago this was pretty standard in some situation! imo

All info we have is that, villain is pretty deep and he/she is out of position!

 

[solargarlic]

I would hesitate before calling any all in with AKo especially for all my chips. If I had watched the player that pushed accumulate the stack with bad hands and reckless play that would be one thing but to just assume I am ahead no. AKo although pretty at times usually when you have been card dead or sometimes when you are up but at the end of the day it is nothing more than fancy ace high. As many times as I have called with QQ and ran into KK as with my KK running into AA now AK even suited doesn't hold as much weight. Just my two cents hope it went well for you.

 

[arabarran666]

AK is just another draw card, i would just call his bet regarding the better position after the flop. Just take it to the streets.

 

[RamdeeBen]

You can either call or 3B pre, regardless you did nothing wrong to call it off even if he shows up with AA.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

There have been lots of good points raised so I'm not going to go into any detail. The main point I want to make is that when you are going to 3-bet you have to have a plan for what you are going to do next. That's why you need some info on the villain and his range because they are not always going to do what you want them to.

This is the best point so far. Once hero elects to 3bet they should already know what they plan to do if they get 4bet. If it will be a tough decision hero will be better served by just taking a flop in position with a strong hand, or just 3bet shoving preflop (which is a bit of an overshove but not a terrible play with AK especially if hero is still learning the game and may get outplayed post flop, or may get in tricky preflop situations).

For me, I would never plan to 3bet/fold here, given my stack size. So in my game, the fact that I 3bet would mean that vs. this particular opener I'm comfortable getting it all in preflop.

Answering for your question, we do not have information about villain and his ability+tendents, therefore we do not have any info to rely on that this 4x open EP is huge! This could be easyly standard opening EP, since i remember times ago this was pretty standard in some situation! imo

All info we have is that, villain is pretty deep and he/she is out of position!

4x is a large opening raise in today's game. It's just a fact. It's not player dependent. The state of the game has changed dramatically in many ways since the days you are referring to and are not really applicable to analyzing this hand.

Also, the fact that villain is deep and OOP doesn't change the size of the raise in proportion to hero's stack. So 4x is also a large raise when considered only from the perspective of hero's stack. Hero has a stack that basically cannot afford to 3bet to 8.5bb and then fold.

 

[Ambur]

4x is a large opening raise in today's game. It's just a fact.

So i should take it as "must" be, no other option - given information?

Thanks for your feedback anyway!!!