Playing KK, question for u guys :)

Walkmanx

Walkmanx

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Nov 2, 2007
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Ok Guys this is a hand from a tourny i had a few days back and i would like to know wat is the correct move to do, in the end of this hand history...if u say bet, then say also how much :D i will post the rest of the hand after i get some anwsers...

Stacks:
- achim120356 with 19080 - zeK01 with 1488 - gatzy with 14246 - sharob with 10359 - rick53 with 415 - oberfloh with 4065 - neck1 with 4612 - WalkmanX with 7850 - Boef666 with 9615

index.pl


index.pl

Blinds: 150/300
Site: pokerstars
* - Dealt to WalkmanX:
kh.gif
kd.gif

* - Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* - sharob calls [300]
* - oberfloh calls [300]
* - walkmanx raises 1200 to 1500
* - sharob calls [1200]
* - Folds: 7
* - Potsize: 3750
Flop:
qc.gif
2c.gif
tc.gif

* - sharob: checks

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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Aug 29, 2007
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um. you don't have a club. Proceed with caution.
 
H

hbkmad

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Sep 16, 2007
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Yea a bet around 2500 is good be very careful though flush draw and possible straight draw too, how has this person been playing. It doen't look like he'd be playing big stack bully. he'd take a big hit against you if you get in an all-in situation. throw a bet out and if you get call your most likely behind
 
tosborn

tosborn

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A bet here will leave you with no fold equity. This is a definate shove.
 
tosborn

tosborn

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I better explain this a little.



Here are our options:

Check: Very weak, we can't automatically give villain credit for the flush and if we check and villain bets we are going to be faced with a tough decision and still not have a clue what villain is holding.

Raise to 2500: Your starting stack was 7850. After the preflop raise to 1500 you were left with 6350. The pot currently stands at 3750. With the straight and flush draws that are present we want to at least bet 2/3 the pot so that we are not giving villain the right pot odds to make this call. A 2/3 pot bet would be 2500 making our stack 3850. If villain flat calls that makes the pot 8750. Going all-in on the turn would then give villain proper odds (4:1) to call with drawing hands.

All-In: By pushing now we are forcing villain to make a mistake by calling with a lesser hand and with improper odds to do so.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Your line here depends on how villain has been playing monchrome drawy flops since it is very unlikely that he has a made hand right now (limping + cold-calling screams of low or middle pair + high cards some of the time) but it is very likely that this flop has helped him or gave him a draws to the nuts (wether flush or straight).

If I knew that villain would c/r or c/shove me, a smallish bet (1000) and a shove (or call) for value might be good since we'll get raised by worse (drawing) hands more often than we will get called by them. What I won't do is give a free card, I'd prefer to shove here and lose value than try to extract more value on later streets.

Only hand that could be serious trouble is probably KxJc since we have no outs to improvement (barring a turn/river that airs the board), while opponent has 13+ outs two times, giving him the win more than 50% of the time (or is my math off ?).
 
Walkmanx

Walkmanx

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U guys have some valid points here, anyway i was new to the table i didnt have almost any reads on the guys

Anyway, This is wat happened next...I didnt want to give him any free cards to make a flush or a straight, i woulda been happy just to take the pot down right there...

WalkmanX: bets 3000
sharob: raises 4500 to 7500

Now wat do u think i should have done next? Wat hand can u put him on?
 
rob5775

rob5775

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Mar 16, 2007
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U guys have some valid points here, anyway i was new to the table i didnt have almost any reads on the guys

Anyway, This is wat happened next...I didnt want to give him any free cards to make a flush or a straight, i woulda been happy just to take the pot down right there...

WalkmanX: bets 3000
sharob: raises 4500 to 7500

Now wat do u think i should have done next? Wat hand can u put him on?

Do you have a read on "sharob"? That would help.

With no reads I figure sharob either hit the Q or 10, or has the :kc4: or :ac4: in his hand. It is unlikely you have a flush, and villain knows this.

Hmmm, I would have preferred a shove on the turn. Tough situation. You are dead to the flush (EDIT: you could catch running cards to a fullhouse) and way behind to a set (10 10 is plausible). Other then that you are ahead but if villain has a club with a hand like AcQ or KcJ then you are not much of a favorite. Fold you have barely 10bbs, which is still manageable. If my read of villain is loose/aggressive... I call. If villain is TAG, I fold.
 
J

jeffred1111

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I'd probably call since why would he valuetown you with the goods on the flop while he knows that you have something since more than 1/2 your stack is already in the middle. This is a a fourflush a lot of the time, and it is AKs, well, I'm paying him off here since he could very well be protecting a Q here.

The more I think of it, the more I could find a fold here.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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Walkman, you made it as difficult for us as possible:)

First of all, I have issues with the pre-flop raise. The "standard" in tourneys is 3BB + one BB per limper. My experience shows this is not enough to get them out at low buy-in tourneys. So I usually add a few BBs depending on the table and my position.

The objective here is to bet enough so you get called by only one player.

Once you get this flop, you MUST move in. Any partial meaningful bet pot-commits you anyway, so why not maximize FE? If you are against a made flush, then you were very unlucky. More often than not, you will be ahead against top pair, smaller overpair or a flush draw.
 
Walkmanx

Walkmanx

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Well Cheetah, yes i know the 'standard' is 3BB and 1 BB per every Limper...Thats what i usually do, but its kinda sick in the low limits and even when the blinds aren't high some ppl call u down with K3 LoL, at that point i raised 3BB +1BB i tought my preflop play was ok in that hand :p coz i was heads up against Sharob only....

Ill post the rest of the hand later Tonight!
 
H

hbkmad

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well your in a sticky situation, call it and just see what happens. you lose so what pat yourself on the back for a tough call. Go on to the next tournment. i put my vote in for the villian having a suited connector.
 
Walkmanx

Walkmanx

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Ok Guys, so here is how it went down...i put him on just one club and maybe a pair so i called it and this is how it went down...

WalkmanX: bets 3000
sharob: raises 4500 to 7500
WalkmanX: calls 3325 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qc 2c Tc] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2c Tc 2d] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sharob: shows [Ac 9c] (a flush, Ace high)
WalkmanX: shows [Kh Kd] (a full house, Deuces full of Kings)
WalkmanX collected 16625 from pot

Honestly i couldnt put him on a made flush already thats why i called, obv. if i had put him on that i wouldnt have called him LoL

Its a good win, coz i went on to finish 4th in that tourny winning 47$ witch is my highest tourny winning :) (i play small limits)

Anyway it was great hearing from u all, ill post some intresting hands in the future aswell :)
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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Villain must have blown a gasket:laugh: But it is absolutely correct to push here. What he had was the worst-case scenario.
 
Walkmanx

Walkmanx

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Villain must have blown a gasket:laugh: But it is absolutely correct to push here. What he had was the worst-case scenario.

Yah, after that hand, i didnt get any friendly comments on the Chatbox, but i just ignored it, knowing i did the right thing...:D
 
Tigersmith

Tigersmith

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May 23, 2007
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Ok Guys, so here is how it went down...i put him on just one club and maybe a pair so i called it and this is how it went down...

WalkmanX: bets 3000
sharob: raises 4500 to 7500
WalkmanX: calls 3325 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qc 2c Tc] 2♦
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2c Tc 2d] 2♠
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sharob: shows [Ac 9c] (a flush, Ace high)
WalkmanX: shows [Kh Kd] (a full house, Deuces full of Kings)
WalkmanX collected 16625 from pot

Honestly i couldnt put him on a made flush already thats why i called, obv. if i had put him on that i wouldnt have called him LoL

Its a good win, coz i went on to finish 4th in that tourny winning 47$ witch is my highest tourny winning :) (i play small limits)

Anyway it was great hearing from u all, ill post some intresting hands in the future aswell :)

wow nice hand with running 2s to take a Full house win.
 
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