O8 S+G - call pot bet on river?

Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
$6 S+G. Do you call with just the low and TPTK for high?

***** Hand History for Game 5442309444 *****
0/0 Tourney Omaha Hi/Lo Game Table (PL) (Tournament 30401507) - Fri Nov 17 11:29:34 EST 2006
Table Table 126711 (real money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: holdem401 (1724)
Seat 2: sraucleas (4510)
Seat 3: Mr_Postman2 (592)
Seat 5: haakerun (1740)
Seat 6: ElValdes (1738)
Seat 7: aljolsontb (2222)
Seat 8: mad4it888 (1550)
Seat 9: Bombjack_x (4136)
Seat 10: polodude74 (1788)
sraucleas posts small blind (30)
Mr_Postman2 posts big blind (60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bombjack_x [ :ad4:, :js4:, :2h4:, :8c4: ]
haakerun folds.
ElValdes calls (60)
aljolsontb calls (60)
mad4it888 calls (60)
Bombjack_x calls (60)
polodude74 calls (60)
holdem401 folds.
sraucleas calls (30)
Mr_Postman2 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ :9h4:, :3s4:, :5h4: ]
sraucleas checks.
Mr_Postman2 checks.
ElValdes bets (60)
aljolsontb folds.
mad4it888 calls (60)
Bombjack_x calls (60)
polodude74 folds.
sraucleas calls (60)
Mr_Postman2 calls (60)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ :jc4: ]
sraucleas checks.
Mr_Postman2 checks.
ElValdes bets (60)
mad4it888 calls (60)
Bombjack_x calls (60)
sraucleas calls (60)
Mr_Postman2 calls (60)
** Dealing River ** : [ :7c4: ]
sraucleas bets (1020)
Mr_Postman2 calls (412)
Mr_Postman2 is all-In.
ElValdes calls (1020)
mad4it888 folds.
Bombjack_x.....
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
I understand where you're coming from Bombjack but I think I'm calling this. The main reason is because you have a relatively short stack calling the all in. You are likely to be quartered here but you are also reducing the chip stack of an already shortstacked player and you're the #2 in chips. If the three of you were pretty even, I think you would actually make out folding the hand.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
You have a good chance for the low but you're not a lock. All you have for the high is a pair of Jacks with an Ace Kicker. You haven't spent many chips thus far and now you are asking if you should call the 1020 or reraise all in? I think you should fold.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
You're right. How did I miss that? It's an easy call. You are guaranteed half the pot (unless someone else has A, 2).
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
It's not an 'easy' anything.

You're probably getting 1/4. On a nondescript board like this the chances of your opponents all going for high is practically zero unless they're all braindead. Similarly the chances of A4 staying in to this point are similarly low unless you're dealing with very bad players (and I mean very bad even by $6 SNG standards).

That said it's ~1k to call, which would make the total pot ~3.5k. Even if you get 1/4, you're getting ~875 back, so you only need a relatively small chance (~15% offhand) of getting half the pot (~1750) to make calling reasonable. Really rough maths, but it's not far off - so if you think you have a >15% chance of taking half, you call.

Getting 1/6 happens so rarely it's not really worth worrying about in working things out. Similarly you're dead for high >99% of the time, so again it's not worth even considering if your high hand is good.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
i'd call this without thinking - the downside is much less than the upside. People WILL call at these levels with any made low (the Mr Postman player for instance may expect he's beat but feel he's so short stacked he might as well take a shot). I've never seen a sixthed or eighthed low, but even then you wont drop that much. And you could scoop the pot (i've won a number of highs when i've been going for low) - unlikely i know, but you've got huge odds to try (and if you DO dump the nut low, you're gifting the chips to an opponent).
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Well I was pretty sure I was going to get quartered but I was actually sixthed in the main pot and quartered in the side pot... didn't do too much damage to my stack though. Bet 1020 and won back 900, so lost 300 overall on the hand.

** Dealing River ** [ :7c4: ]
sraucleas bets [1020]
Mr_Postman2 is all-In [412]
ElValdes calls [1020]
mad4it888 folds
Bombjack_x calls [1020]
sraucleas shows [ :2c4:, :ah4:, :qs4:, :4d4: ]high card Ace.
Mr_Postman2 shows [ :2d4:, :6s4:, :8h4:, :ac4: ]a straight Five to Nine.
ElValdes shows [ :9s4:, :4h4:, :6h4:, :5d4: ]a straight Three to Seven.
Bombjack_x shows [ :ad4:, :js4:, :2h4:, :8c4: ]a pair of Jacks.
ElValdes wins 912 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, Three to Seven.
sraucleas wins 456 chips from side pot #1 with high card, Aces.
Bombjack_x wins 456 chips from side pot #1 with high card, Aces.
Mr_Postman2 wins 1334 chips from the main pot with a straight, Five to Nine.
Mr_Postman2 wins 445 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.
sraucleas wins 445 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.
Bombjack_x wins 444 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
I'm wondering why nobody thought this was a fold preflop. Yes I see the ace-2, but that's all he has. Everyone plays ace-2 so even if he gets low there is a good chance someone else has ace-2 also. With only the 8 has another low card if an ace or 2 hits the board he's in bad shape to anyone with ace-3, 2-3. He has no real cards for high, no flush or straight possibilities and only one high card the ace. With no possiblility of a high hand I dump this. I think it's usually better to play for high first (unless you have good scoop cards which he doesn't here), there is always a high winner but not always a low winner. Even with ace-2 it is not a sure thing that there will be a low hand or that you low will win half.

As a famous chater as said: "Fold pre-flop".
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
I usually limp in with any Ace-2. It is a pretty raggy hand, but it does have some straight possibilities - AJ for Broadway, or the J8 could make a straight as well. And of course any cards can make trips or full houses. I certainly wouldn't call a raise with this, but it's less than 2% of my stack to see a flop, and these guys are fairly passive pre-flop especially in the early stages, so little danger of being raised.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
Well I was pretty sure I was going to get quartered but I was actually sixthed in the main pot and quartered in the side pot... didn't do too much damage to my stack though. Bet 1020 and won back 900, so lost 300 overall on the hand.

** Dealing River ** [ :7c4: ]
sraucleas bets [1020]
Mr_Postman2 is all-In [412]
ElValdes calls [1020]
mad4it888 folds
Bombjack_x calls [1020]
sraucleas shows [ :2c4:, :ah4:, :qs4:, :4d4: ]high card Ace.
Mr_Postman2 shows [ :2d4:, :6s4:, :8h4:, :ac4: ]a straight Five to Nine.
ElValdes shows [ :9s4:, :4h4:, :6h4:, :5d4: ]a straight Three to Seven.
Bombjack_x shows [ :ad4:, :js4:, :2h4:, :8c4: ]a pair of Jacks.
ElValdes wins 912 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, Three to Seven.
sraucleas wins 456 chips from side pot #1 with high card, Aces.
Bombjack_x wins 456 chips from side pot #1 with high card, Aces.
Mr_Postman2 wins 1334 chips from the main pot with a straight, Five to Nine.
Mr_Postman2 wins 445 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.
sraucleas wins 445 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.
Bombjack_x wins 444 chips from the main pot with high card, Aces.

So you won 900 for high card Aces. How much did you win for the low, or is that included?
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
I'm wondering why nobody thought this was a fold preflop. Yes I see the ace-2, but that's all he has.
Fair point, but it's 60 chips. If you do flop a low, you can bet the pot and see if everyone folds. If someone calls, it maybe with a weak high that can be taken if you river a straight. I'd let this go in a cash game, but play it in a SnG. I've played a lot of O/8 tournaments and Sit N Go's recently, and if you are TOO stringent with your starting hands you can literally not have a single playable hand.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
If preflop went something like raise-call-call-call I'd agree with folding, obviously.

As it is, people in these things will limp with practically anything, so I don't think the preflop limp is terrible.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
So you won 900 for high card Aces. How much did you win for the low, or is that included?
The system that calls the Low end on Party is clearly mashed. If you get A,2,3,4,5 for the low it calls it a straight. It used to be OK.
 
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