NLHE STT Turbo: Play money* K high steal pot post-flop, raise higher?

[basse]

poker stars 90+10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds + t15 - 3 players

SB: t1829 M = 6.77
BB: t1875 M = 6.94
Hero (BTN): t796 M = 2.95

Pre Flop: (t270) Hero is BTN with K

8

Hero calls t150, SB calls t75, BB checks

Flop: (t495) T

4

5

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t150, SB folds, BB folds

Was this raise high enough for a pot steal? Should I not have been trying to steal the pot? Keep in mind two things: first, both other players had been playing significantly more aggressively than me, raising a lot, so double checks showed weakness. Second, I had been playing extremely tight, so I reasoned that my raising would hold more significance.

 

[horizon12]

With the size of the stack call will be a mistake, we can only push/ fold..
With only 5bb K8o need only push this hand ( we have fold equity here and how min 32% equity if someone call )

About postflop, when blinds checks, i shove my hand, because pot already how my stack.. not so much to win what shove will profitable.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Just shove pre flop man!

Also, I don't mind the small bet on the flop, but we should be shoving in this spot.

 

[WiZZiM]

stop playing $100 sng's unless your plan is to go broke.

 

[basse]

Just shove pre flop man!

Also, I don't mind the small bet on the flop, but we should be shoving in this spot.

People are really aggressive in these play money SNGs. Should I really be shoving with K8o with 3 people left? I am having a hard time playing these once it gets down to 3-5 people, I think I play too tightly.

stop playing $100 sng's unless your plan is to go broke.

It's play money! But there was no way to denote that (or I missed it). I am definitely not playing $100 SNGs

 

[10058765]

Poker Stars 90+10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds + t15 - 3 players

SB: t1829 M = 6.77
BB: t1875 M = 6.94
Hero (BTN): t796 M = 2.95

Pre Flop: (t270) Hero is BTN with K

8

Hero calls t150, SB calls t75, BB checks

Flop: (t495) T

4

5

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t150, SB folds, BB folds

Was this raise high enough for a pot steal? Should I not have been trying to steal the pot? Keep in mind two things: first, both other players had been playing significantly more aggressively than me, raising a lot, so double checks showed weakness. Second, I had been playing extremely tight, so I reasoned that my raising would hold more significance.

Without reading any further comments I'll give you my opinion.
Calling 150 pre while you only have 796 is wrong...esp with 2 agressive players to act behind.
It's just push or fold and with K8 and you being in the blinds after this hand I would push. You still have a little fold equity and even when called you'll most likely have decent equity in the hand.
By betting 150 on the flop you almost give a free card....I'm surprised the other players both fold and also surprised they just call and check pre.

 

[horizon12]

People are really aggressive in these play money SNGs. Should I really be shoving with K8o with 3 people left? I am having a hard time playing these once it gets down to 3-5 people, I think I play too tightly.



It's play money! But there was no way to denote that (or I missed it). I am definitely not playing $100 SNGs

playmoney :rofl: ? there is nothing to discuss , shove all hands will be right game...

 

[basse]

playmoney :rofl: ? there is nothing to discuss , shove all hands will be right game...

Other members of the forum suggested starting out with play money, to get used to all the situations that one might encounter. I agree that it's not the most interesting, but if I don't want to sink a lot of money into the game until I play well, I think it's a reasonable thing to do.

Discussing hand strategy for it is not super easy, I guess, since people seem to play very differently (extreme tendency towards shoving even in early stages). So, your advice is clearly wrong.

 

[WiZZiM]

People are really aggressive in these play money SNGs. Should I really be shoving with K8o with 3 people left? I am having a hard time playing these once it gets down to 3-5 people, I think I play too tightly.



It's play money! But there was no way to denote that (or I missed it). I am definitely not playing $100 SNGs

oh, lol. didn't read past the $100 buyin...

yeah anyways shove pre flop. you have 5 BB's and your in last place, meaning you are the one who's most likely to go out first, meaning you need to take risks to get yourself into the higher stack setup. Shove nice and wide here, minimum 50% of hands, wouldn't be much higher than that, you are not out of the game by any means, one double and you are tied with chip lead essentially.

basically, the thought here is that jamming wide and getting called wide is preferable to just folding and getting blinded out of the game. The former is great bc we at least have a chance of winning the flip, the latter we have no chance apart from being lucky enough to get dealt good hands. The problem with getting good hands is that everyone is dealt the same stuff essentially, so relying on cards is one of the worst places to be in poker.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

it's fine to play for play money while you're learning about different situations such as board reading, bet sizing, stack size management and relative hand strengths. No problems there, just realize that analyzing the thought processes of your opponents will be of limited use in play money tournaments...but that's OK if you're still learning first level stuff (analyzing your opponents is 2nd level stuff).

As to the hand....this really boils down to stack size management. Regardless of what you are dealt you are in shove or fold mode. You should be shoving just about every "above average" hand in this spot. FYI the "average" hand is roughly T7o.

WiZZiM is spot on with his analysis of your relative stack situation. Basically, the short stack has the "least to lose" by being aggressive since you're in danger of blinding out anyways. So, shove wide and who really cares if they fold or call...either is actually OK for you at this point. When they call you'll usually have 40% equity or better to double up and be in OK shape....and when they fold you've increased your stack by a nice amount.

either way, on that flop if they check to you, you should shove 100% of hands. K high is just a bonus.

 

[basse]

oh, lol. didn't read past the $100 buyin...

yeah anyways shove pre flop. you have 5 BB's and your in last place, meaning you are the one who's most likely to go out first, meaning you need to take risks to get yourself into the higher stack setup. Shove nice and wide here, minimum 50% of hands, wouldn't be much higher than that, you are not out of the game by any means, one double and you are tied with chip lead essentially.

basically, the thought here is that jamming wide and getting called wide is preferable to just folding and getting blinded out of the game. The former is great bc we at least have a chance of winning the flip, the latter we have no chance apart from being lucky enough to get dealt good hands. The problem with getting good hands is that everyone is dealt the same stuff essentially, so relying on cards is one of the worst places to be in poker.

Haha yeah, $100 buy-in vs play-money units buy-in isn't quite the same. Thanks for comments. I realized after playing 5 SNGs or something that I needed to play much less tight in the late game. Had been reading about playing tight early etc., and were having a hard time transitioning to more aggressive late-game play.

it's fine to play for play money while you're learning about different situations such as board reading, bet sizing, stack size management and relative hand strengths. No problems there, just realize that analyzing the thought processes of your opponents will be of limited use in play money tournaments...but that's OK if you're still learning first level stuff (analyzing your opponents is 2nd level stuff).

As to the hand....this really boils down to stack size management. Regardless of what you are dealt you are in shove or fold mode. You should be shoving just about every "above average" hand in this spot. FYI the "average" hand is roughly T7o.

WiZZiM is spot on with his analysis of your relative stack situation. Basically, the short stack has the "least to lose" by being aggressive since you're in danger of blinding out anyways. So, shove wide and who really cares if they fold or call...either is actually OK for you at this point. When they call you'll usually have 40% equity or better to double up and be in OK shape....and when they fold you've increased your stack by a nice amount.

either way, on that flop if they check to you, you should shove 100% of hands. K high is just a bonus.

Yeah, I totally agree. I am in no way whatsoever trying to generalize opponent behavior that I'm currently seeing. A lot of people play REALLY crazy in these games, going all-in/calling all-ins in the very early stages, with downright terrible hands. But yeah, I still need to learn 1st level stuff. Even if I understand the concepts, 10 seconds is just way too slow to apply it meaningfully. I think I need to learn patterns, and then apply those, as opposed to trying to think out ICM, odds, etc. I assume that's what other people do too.

As for late-stage play, I am now playing much more aggressively. I am still trying to figure out exactly when the best time to start playing aggressive is, though. In some games, there's a good number of people playing very tight. When this happens, the blinds can get quit high even with ~6 people left. I don't really know how to adapt to that, yet.

 

[joe777]

You dont need to steal the pot cause you are

already short.Its should be a fold or shove depend

on your read on the villain.

 

[horizon12]

Other members of the forum suggested starting out with play money, to get used to all the situations that one might encounter. I agree that it's not the most interesting, but if I don't want to sink a lot of money into the game until I play well, I think it's a reasonable thing to do.

Discussing hand strategy for it is not super easy, I guess, since people seem to play very differently (extreme tendency towards shoving even in early stages). So, your advice is clearly wrong.

What could be the strategy to playmoney.. ??

Maybe in high-stakes playmoney game of adequate. But at the lower limits, the people there play purely by intuition and all the cards with it. They can shove deep stack with any flush draw or call your bet on all streets with only second pair...

Playmoney only need to learn the rules of the game, but not as for a strategy or improve your game...

 

[basse]

What could be the strategy to playmoney.. ??

Maybe in high-stakes playmoney game of adequate. But at the lower limits, the people there play purely by intuition and all the cards with it. They can shove deep stack with any flush draw or call your bet on all streets with only second pair...

Playmoney only need to learn the rules of the game, but not as for a strategy or improve your game...

It's not like bad players are impossible to exploit... If anything, they should be more exploitable. Of course, you will see more variance. But in the long term, correct $EV-based play should lead to the best outcome. Extrapolating based on play is hard, since real-money players are quite different, but as long as one makes decisions with perceived hand ranges in mind, I think it's still ok for learning.

 

[scooba13]

What could be the strategy to playmoney.. ??

Maybe in high-stakes playmoney game of adequate. But at the lower limits, the people there play purely by intuition and all the cards with it. They can shove deep stack with any flush draw or call your bet on all streets with only second pair...
..

Also true of micro stakes - at $2 SNGs I often get called all in by villains on a draw or find opponents who over value second or top pair.

Sure, more people have these leaks at play money stakes - but at every level you have to learn what mistakes your opponents are likely to make and then expoit them.

 

[the lab man]

Its practice