Multi-way limp pot, steal from button facing reraise

[jaketrevvor]

I played a freeroll earlier today and here's an interesting hand where a play I made went a bit pear-shaped:

Seat 1: VassagoRox (1,870)
Seat 2: greensmower (4,910)
Seat 3: danat555 (1,180)
Seat 4: MsSam (3,180)
Seat 5: Greece2008 (1,930)
Seat 6: Greyland (1,200)
Seat 7: jaketrevvor (1,610)
Seat 8: Keithd2606 (985)
Seat 9: Alliana52 (1,175)
Keithd2606 posts the small blind of 20
Alliana52 posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jaketrevvor [Qc 6h]
VassagoRox folds
greensmower folds
danat555 folds
MsSam calls 40
Greece2008 folds
Greyland calls 40
jaketrevvor raises to 310
Keithd2606 raises to 985, and is all in
Alliana52 folds
MsSam folds
Greyland folds
jaketrevvor ???

With the pot size as it is am I getting right odds on a call?

 

[ChuckTs]

You're getting about 2.1:1 which is good, but your hand is too weak. You're often going to be dominated (60/40 at best) and the pot odds don't make up for that.

Considering your stack size as well, you'll be in a safe spot still if you fold, but if you call and lose you'll be sitting on a measly 625 and will be in push/fold mode soon.

Easy fold. Easy fold PF actually. Steals like this rarely work in freerolls where people don't respect their anything.

 

[jaketrevvor]

You're getting about 2.1:1 which is good, but your hand is too weak. You're often going to be dominated (60/40 at best) and the pot odds don't make up for that.

Surely if I'm 60/40 dominated then the odds say that I do call? Theoretically I should call even if I'm 68/32 right?

 

[ChuckTs]

60/40 at best. Most of the time you'll be a significant dog; 70/30 or worse.

Against any pair you're either on the ugly end of a coinflip (vs 22-55), ~70/30 (vs 77-JJ) or are dominated (4:1 dog vs KK or AA). Against unpaired cards you're often dominated too (only ~60/40).

Even though sometimes we're getting odds to call in tournaments (we are against a few of his hands here, but not his entire range IMO), we should often fold to maintain a healthy stack. You're putting yourself in a very ugly spot should you call and lose this hand. Especially in a freeroll where you'll have much less of a chance at some steals, and will have to rely more on your actual card strength to come back.

 

[jaketrevvor]

This is all true and there is no way I can realistically risk so much of my stack in this situation, but if we ignore this and look at purely theoretically at this individual hand then I think both call and fold are equivalent mathmaticaly speaking:

If we give him a range of 22+,A6s+,K9s+,QJs,,A8o+,KTo+,QJo then our PF equity is 31.8% against his 68.2% which is almost EXACTLY the odds that the pot is giving us! God that is so sexy - I live for moments like this:The correct move is call AND fold how awesome!

 

[ChuckTs]

In a typical game, his range is going to be a lot tighter, and a fold will be the absolute no-brainer action. This of course is a freeroll though, and it might possibly be that big, but that's a pretty big assumption.

Even if his range were that big, you're only just getting odds, and again your stack size after a potential call-win/call-lose or fold becomes a big factor in your decision. Easy fold.

 

[jaketrevvor]

Yep, sadly true. But I would give this particular guy this loose a range but I could only call if I had a chip stack that was almost exactly equal to infinity, which is consistent with the call=fold argument (which I still find ultracool )

 

[KJac23]

Hey, Keithd2606 thats me on full tilt, i cant recall the hand, how did it turn out?

 

[jaketrevvor]

Oh hey, welcome to CardsChat!

I folded and told you I had folded pocket Js (ahem..) - well here's the chat it kind of explains it:

jaketrevvor has 15 seconds left to act
jaketrevvor has requested TIME
Keithd2606: do me a favor and fold
jaketrevvor: ok
MsSam: lol
jaketrevvor folds
Uncalled bet of 675 returned to Keithd2606
Keithd2606 mucks
Keithd2606 wins the pot (740)
jaketrevvor: i folded Js
Keithd2606: wow
jaketrevvor: lol joking i had AJ
Greyland has 15 seconds left to act
jaketrevvor: u had Q?
jaketrevvor: s
jaketrevvor: ?
Keithd2606: 10s
jaketrevvor: woulda been a race i gess

hmm.. this is the only time I've ever lied about my hand - honest!

Anyway keep posting and reading - you'll love the site and I hope to see you at the tables again (though perhaps not with my pants down like last time )

jt

 

[KJac23]

oh ya, i remeber now, i lied too, i had ace 6 that hand.
thanks a lot, also looking forward to meet you again on the felt.