Live tourney hand advice.

[lukeellul92]

Okay, tonight was in a live tourney. $100 buy in, NLHE. 20min rounds, 5k starting stack.

My stack = 4.5k
Villain Stack = 8k
Unsure on villains playstyle, seems TAG, havn't had enough hands with him to see, tournament is only just over an hour in.
BLINDS: 75/150

I was on the Button.I get KK.
Villain in Early position raises to 400.
Everyone folds to C/O, who calls 400.
I 3 bet to 1200.
Villain shoves all in.
I call.
C/O Folds.
Villain shows AA.
Board comes dry so he wins and busts me.

My reasoning:

Villain raises to 400, only 2.5bb, when the C/O called, I wanted to reduce the field. (KK is good, but not THAT Good against alot of players).
I 3-bet to 1200 here and I feel like that's a pretty reasonable/typical 3 bet. I know it usually thins my range here though but I figured a 3bet would be enough to get him to fold any suited connectors/ JJ or lower. Maybe even AK.

When Villain shoved, I instantly put him on 1 of 3 hands. AA, KK, or AK. Knowing I had the other 2 kings I figured AA or AK. However my 3 bet plus his original raise of 400 put me 1600 chips into a pot with only 4.5k stack, so I felt like I was pot committed... So I called...and busted....


My Analysis:
After going over this in my head over and over again, I feel like my 3bet was fine because I was in position and I had the hand to do it, however I feel like when he shoved that maybe I should've just given him the pot.
I would've been left with around 25BB. Enough to make a comeback, considering I was on the button so had almost an entire orbit of "free hands".


Was my play correct? Was my analysis correct? any advice? This somewhat tilted me pretty bad and put me in a shit mood because I was only just over an hour into the tournament. I think I need to study more and stop making stupid calls.

 

[horizon12]

When Villain shoved, I instantly put him on 1 of 3 hands. AA, KK, or AK.

You can never be confident that he will have only these three hands, even the tightest players have a wider range like 99+ AQ+. So your call was correct and very profitable, very often villain will have AA.

If you lose all the same KK vs AA. I can say it's just not your day, next time better luck.

 

[2Pacavelli]

In my opinion , you played right, and as the box guy said , you cant set this range so closed of AK , KK , AA for the villain. Its a cooler.

 

[DonSifu]

While an argument can be made for folding KK when facing a 4 bet shove, it's much easier said than done. I'm curious how quickly you called? I would take at least 15-30 seconds to really study and make sure you're comfortable with your read/call. Sometimes you can talk yourself into a fold there.
Overall though i think you played it well, and just ran into a cooler.

 

[lukeellul92]

While an argument can be made for folding KK when facing a 4 bet shove, it's much easier said than done. I'm curious how quickly you called? I would take at least 15-30 seconds to really study and make sure you're comfortable with your read/call. Sometimes you can talk yourself into a fold there.
Overall though i think you played it well, and just ran into a cooler.

When action came back to me I said "Well I got kings so if you got aces then good hand" and called.

I'm glad you all feel like this was the correct play, atleast I know Im utilizing my position and betting properly, just sucks it was a cooler. However, this early on in a tournament, if this were to happen to me next time I think I'd probably fold a 4bet shove. (Remember in a live tournament, just over an hour in, it's less then 40 hands that you've seen).
More information wouldve been good but oh well. Coolers suck!

 

[TheCol]

I understand the raise to lessen the field but the allin bet from the villian might have gotten you to fold. Another way I like to play those KK's is to really just call the 400 and see what the flop is before you really make a big move with your chips. Yoy allways have to remember that KK is the second best starting hand. Just when you think your hand is the best it get stomped with AA. I really think you should have just called there.

 

[donkcentralFF]

4.32% chance of AA vs KK... You made the right play... Find 1 pro who is folding KK preflop?

 

[donkcentralFF]

I understand the raise to lessen the field but the allin bet from the villian might have gotten you to fold. Another way I like to play those KK's is to really just call the 400 and see what the flop is before you really make a big move with your chips. Yoy allways have to remember that KK is the second best starting hand. Just when you think your hand is the best it get stomped with AA. I really think you should have just called there.

When you begin to think the only hand your opponent would shove with in a tourney is AA you're severely limiting your chances of not only winning, but simply just getting in the money... So many hands he could easily be shoving and only 1 hand is better than KK..

 

[MCMPLUMBER]

I have always been a fan of when i have KK on the button and someone raises into me just calling. I have seen too many As pop on the flop to repop it.

 

[donkcentralFF]

Ya but if they have A-9 to A-J and have any brains usually they will fold to reraise unless they have no respect or brain.... You want that call though every single time.. Chances of A flopping if 3 remain in deck 17%... Any A high hand beating KK less than 34%..Also by not reraising you're simply giving Arag a chance to make their hand

 

[lukeellul92]

Hmm, interesting read. I guess it's a bit silly to assume that EVERYTIME I have KK that someone who shoves HAS to have AA... I was coolered. It happens. It tilted me because the tournament was still so young, and last time I played this tournament I was very close to the bubble. so to bust really early kind of felt like a blow to me as I felt I was getting worse, rather then better.

 

[donkcentralFF]

Nothing u can do if u busted that way out of a tourney everytime... U could hang ur head high, but your facial expression would be

 

[lukeellul92]

Nothing u can do if u busted that way out of a tourney everytime... U could hang ur head high, but your facial expression would be

I guess even the pro's have their downswings and coolers! ahah. Atleast i lost to AA and not 72 or something stupid.

 

[21sam]

I got my own rule for KK: fold only if three go all in at once or two very tight.

 

[crazyesdumno]

I think you're only going to get the chance to fold KK preflop when you are really deep and certain villain has AA, I dont think its a situation that arises very often though, just a cooler

 

[eidikos]

hi!
easy call for me there
you cant put him in a range like this if you dont know the player very well
he could have jj or qq also there
i also think that you could make a smaller raise there like 1000
it was a set up,better luck next time

 

[IGotADonk]

I see it happen a lot lately. Min or 2.5x raise in EP or UTG with rockets to try and build a pot or sniff out a confident 3-bet. If they get callers, they're feeling good on the flop and try to shut it down there. If someone 3bets, they shove them and get stacks in or pick up the pot preflop. I tend to give a TAG's EP min-raise respect because of this trend.

That being said, I don't know if I could have brought myself to lay down Kings. If he's holding anything but aces, you're sitting pretty, and if you make a habit of folding Kings you're stabbing yourself in the back. Whaddya do?

 

[donkcentralFF]

I got my own rule for KK: fold only if three go all in at once or two very tight.

This is very nitty

 

[lukeellul92]

This is very nitty

I agree.. Super tight... If you're super tight with KK I'd hate to see what your range is...

 

[donkcentralFF]

I agree.. Super tight... If you're super tight with KK I'd hate to see what your range is...

Only plays AA and AK suited, which is better than KK:trytofly:

 

[donkcentralFF]

2 ease your pain i busted out 2 times on saturday with KK vs AA... Just so miserable

 

[Michael Paler]

The oldest poker trick in the book is....limp AA UTG, shove to a re-raise. This has caused many to instead min-raise in EP with AA, then shove to any raise. So what Captain Obvious, right? Well, if your villain rarely min-raises, then suddenly does it UTG...you get my point - there might be a tell you are missing. Especially if they shove after getting raised. Old trick, new twist. I'd watch more closely for betting tells, as it's one of the few (if not the only kind of) tells you have online. This also goes to the logic of entering the pot for the same amount no matter what you have. This eliminates the betting tell. So now that you know, was his min-raise out of character?

Still, many would disagree, saying you simply cannot fold KK utg no matter what. I'm not saying you should, but flatting an early position raise when no Ace comes on the flop could lead to the same result - on a dry flop with low cards, the UTG min-raiser comes out firing on the flop....what could he have? A set or a big pair, right? Would he min-raise a small pair preflop? Would you call an all in on a flop with only one over-pair?

See? You might have been dead no matter what in this situation. Only you can answer that.

 

[donkcentralFF]

This is my 2nd hand at the table I have the 2nd nuts on the button... I should fold right because everytime some1 raises in ep their going to have AA? I dont care how many times I bust out with KK against AA online.. If I'm crediting somebody with AA everytime they limp UTG and shove over my raise or simply folding KK just caus I'm scared they have AA... Would put a major hole in my game.. It's simply a cooler and nothing can be done about it... If the flop comes Q high and big stack pushes all-in must have AA...

 

[Aces2w1n]

Honestly you got KK... calling a shove against someone that has you covered is always a bigger risk to you than them.

You can survive to final table without doing coinflips. So a good option is to fold if you want to play safe. If your shortstack then all means call but deep... just take ur time and choose a better spot.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Honestly you got KK... calling a shove against someone that has you covered is always a bigger risk to you than them.

You can survive to final table without doing coinflips. So a good option is to fold if you want to play safe. If your shortstack then all means call but deep... just take ur time and choose a better spot.

Always remember we prefer to be the raiser/shover than the caller