Let's play a game - Push, raise, call or fold

[JimmyBrizzy]

Pretty simple. Push, raise, call or fold? What do you do when the clock is winding down?


1rst Hand - Very LAG player in SB (45/20) and calling station in BB...

Stacks:
SB with 3340
BB with 1775
UTG with 1645
MP1 with 2215
MP2 with 2360
CO with 805
BTN with 1360

Blinds: 50/100
Site: pokerstars
Dealt to BTN:J♦ A♣
Sklansky group 4
Preflop:
4 players fold.
Hero...


And hand 2, again the very LAG player is sitting to your direct left. SB likes to limp and BB is (25/10/1.44)

Stacks:
BTN with 1330
SB with 2070
BB with 3800
UTG with 3385
MP with 1585
CO with 1330

Blinds: 75/150
Site: Pokerstars
Dealt to CO:T♦ T♣
Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
2 players fold.
Hero...


So what are the decisions here (these are takin from a $3.30 SnG)

 

[S93]

Raise bouth imo.
From the button AJ is a strong hand you could get action from alot of worse hands from the blinds.
1010 im pushing from the CO with the blinds catching up. You need to make a move soon and bouth these hands folded to in postion are strong enough to atleast raise and even push.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

Raise bouth imo.
From the button AJ is a strong hand you could get action from alot of worse hands from the blinds.
1010 im pushing from the CO with the blinds catching up. You need to make a move soon and bouth these hands folded to in postion are strong enough to atleast raise and even push.

Ok, so w/ AJ are we pushing our whole stack w/ 13 bb's and fairly loose players, or are we raising 300-400. What's our plan if we miss the flop? Push on almost any flop considering they're both loose?

 

[S93]

Ok, so w/ AJ are we pushing our whole stack w/ 13 bb's and fairly loose players, or are we raising 300-400. What's our plan if we miss the flop? Push on almost any flop considering they're both loose?

The AJ im raising 300 since that way whe should get action from worse hand,im pushing most flops if checked to.
I dont whant to push with AJ since where almost never called exept by pairs and bigger aces,but might get raised/called by KQ,A10 type of hands if whe make it 3BB.
On the flop whe will have some fold equity so pushing if checked to might get action from worse hands as well.

With the 1010 i whant to push since a overcard will hit almost half the time and seeing how the blinds just whent up whe whount be able to play post flop with this hand.
Im pushing and expecting to be called my any decent ace or pair from the loose players behind.

 

[c9h13no3]

I jam with both. M < 10. But I hate playing post-flop with shallow stacks (cuz its retarded). Being OOP is actually favorable to being IP when the stacks are so short. If you're gonna raise with AJo, then 235 or so will do the same thing 300 will.

 

[S93]

I jam with both. M < 10. But I hate playing post-flop with shallow stacks (cuz its retarded). Being OOP is actually favorable to being IP when the stacks are so short. If you're gonna raise with AJo, then 235 or so will do the same thing 300 will.

Do u expect to be called by worse hands then AJ?

 

[c9h13no3]

Do u expect to be called by worse hands then AJ?

I expect not to get called.

 

[shinedown.45]

With the type of players to act behind me, I think I'm pushing both hands here as any reasonable raise will commit me to the pot in both scenarios.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

I think the 10's is an easy shove.

The AJ hand, Sindri makes a good point. I know they are loose, but I'm not sure they'd actually call with many hands that are worse. Possibly KQ, or Ax, but more often than not I'm only getting called by hands that are races or ahead. Maybe I'm wrong.

Let's say w/ the AJ hand I raise to 300 and the SB pushes me all in. Am I calling this, and is this any better of an outcome?

 

[c9h13no3]

Let's say w/ the AJ hand I raise to 300 and the SB pushes me all in. Am I calling this, and is this any better of an outcome?

(300+300+100+1060)/1060 = 1.66:1 or 38%. You'd have to insta-call. You're priced in. Hence why we POOOSH in the first place.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

(300+300+100+1060)/1060 = 1.66:1 or 38%. You'd have to insta-call. You're priced in. Hence why we POOOSH in the first place.

Ok sounds good.

That was my course of action anyway. I pushed, SB called with JJ's and BB folded. I caught my ace anyway, but am trying to just focus on SnG's for now.

Sooooo I'll be trying to post a lot more hands for you guys to analyze.

Thanks,

Lik

 

[S93]

(300+300+100+1060)/1060 = 1.66:1 or 38%. You'd have to insta-call. You're priced in. Hence why we POOOSH in the first place.

Yes where calling a push with the AJ but the point i was trying to make was if whe push whe might not get any action from worse hands but if whe make it 300 it could look like a button steal and alot of inferior hands might re-raise us all-in.
I dont know maby im just over thinking this.

 

[c9h13no3]

it could look like a button steal and alot of inferior hands might re-raise us all-in.

You want to coinflip for your stack? Wtf. We want to win chips without going to showdown, k thx.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

Yes where calling a push with the AJ but the point i was trying to make was if whe push whe might not get any action from worse hands but if whe make it 300 it could look like a button steal and alot of inferior hands might re-raise us all-in.
I dont know maby im just over thinking this.

I think this actually makes more sense.

If we push, it is less likely to get all of their chips in the center with a worse hand, although not impossible. But, with a very LAG player sitting right after me, a weak steal attempt will probably get more of his chips in when he does actually have a worse hand.

Hands suchs as Q10, KJ, J10 and those types of hands may enter his 3-bet range as opposed to what his range is for just calling an all-in.

I feel we definitely want to get all of our chips in the middle with this hand, (preferrably HU) its just a matter of how we get him putting in all his chips with the widest range possible.

You want to coinflip for your stack? Wtf. We want to win chips without going to showdown, k thx.

I don't think that's exactly what it meant. We don't neccessarily want a coin-flip, we actually want even worse hands getting their money in the middle. I think by pushing we are honestly more likely to get into a coin-flip.

I think the main problem comes from the fact that we are with an awkward chip stack... if we had 2,000 or 700 the decision would be much clearer.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

TT hand is obviously a shove.

AJ hand needs some more thinking. Let's assume we shove and show our cards and villains call with all hands that beat us and fold all others, which is like worst case scenario. That makes their calling range 8.3%. So the likelihood of getting called by one of the villains is 16%. When we do get called, we have 37% equity:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.091% 62.25% 00.84% 1227949152 16571526.00 { 22+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 36.909% 36.07% 00.84% 711482004 16571526.00 { AJo }

and therefore we get 37% of a pot of about 2800 chips, i.e. we lose about 326 chips in cEV. On ther other hand they both fold 84% of the time and we earn 150 chips. Our chip EV is therefore

cEV = .84*150-.16*326 = 74 , so shoving is profitable in chips, even if we show our cards.

Ideally we should do the ICM calculations to translate cEV in $EV, but I don't think it changes the result much. I shove this.

 

[blankoblanco]

what the man above said, i shove both

as for your question as to whether you can get a shove called with worse on the AJ -- even if you never get called by worse, it's still +EV but i know you're concerned about if it's greater EV than making a smaller raise -- i definitely think you can

i was going to say it depends on the buy-in of the tourney, but in a way i'm not sure that it does. bad players can easily call with worse because they don't know better, and good players can sometimes call with worse because they think you have an appropriately wide range in that spot

 

[S93]

You want to coinflip for your stack? Wtf. We want to win chips without going to showdown, k thx.

When did i ever talk about geting a coinflip? I simple saying if whe have 2 LAG players behind with a wide 3bet range why not raise to 300 and call a shove? Like Likeminutz says there 3bet range include J10,KJ,A10 ect, hands whe have dominated!
Dont you whant a 70-30% for stacks?

Its pretty simple the stack is going in on the AJ hand its just a quiston if its more profitable to raise and possible get 3bet light or push and risk only geting called by better hands.

just my 2cents.......