Later Stages MTT - 2nd in chips

[dufferdevon]

I have been showing down nothing but monsters for the last 10 hands, AK, AK, QQ, KK - quad tens, etc... then I get this hand.

Hand info:

Date:2008/12/29 22:28:53 ETType:Tournament (129743870)Game:Hold'em NLTable:'129743870 16' 9-maxBlinds: $200/400Antes:$50


Table info:

Seat 1: chaos_qc ($5,146)
Seat 2: Patskeezle ($15,235)
Dealer
Seat 3: Fatskis ($10,632)
Posts small blind $200
Seat 4: Verno71 ($25,459)
Posts big blind $400
Seat 5: djgolfcan ($39,097)
Seat 6: chuckyd52 ($1,849)
Seat 7: TEXASDONKER ($1,955)
Seat 8: timo123 ($15,845)
Seat 9: $hanesaw ($9,845)

Dealt to djgolfcan

Check odds
Preflop: (Pot: $1050)

FOLD chuckyd52
FOLD TEXASDONKER
FOLD timo123
FOLD $hanesaw
FOLD chaos_qc
CALL Patskeezle, $400
FOLD Fatskis
RAISE Verno71, to $2,222
CALL djgolfcan, $1,822
FOLD Patskeezle


Check odds
Flop: (Pot: $5,294)

BET Verno71, $3,233
Call djgolfcan $3,233



Check odds
Turn: (Pot: $11,760)

CHECK Verno71
djgolfcan: ??

 

[baudib1]

Um, this is a pretty easy check behind. You're not calling anything except the smallest bets on the river if you don't improve.

 

[Jillychemung]

^______^ Ditto

Any reads on the villain?

 

[dufferdevon]

He arrived at the table about 5 hands earlier, saw all my monsters come out but he hadn't played a hand yet.

 

[dufferdevon]

I guess I kinda overplayed my hand then. I guess I thought I was invincible and he was tired of me pushing the table around.

Turn: (Pot: $11,760)

CHECK Verno71
BET djgolfcan, $5,000
RAISE Verno71, to $19,954 and is ALL-IN
CALL djgolfcan, $14,954

River: (Pot: $51,668)

Showdown:

SHOWS Verno71

SHOWS djgolfcan

Verno71 wins the pot of $51,668 with three of a kind, Eights

 

[Dr_Dick]

I always recommend aggression in this spot. IMO your realistically facing one of two situations, (1) a big pair that slows down because the 4 scares them or (2) AQ,KQ,etc. making a cbet on a missed flop. Sure there are other scenarios like villain caught a piece of the flop, has a set but slows when the 4 hits, was making a move with nothing, or raised with 75, but these are IMO low probability scenarios.

So given your stack size and the fact scenario 2 makes a good bit of his likely range and the fact he checked showing weakness i would bet 2/3 stack. This gives you several benefits (1) you might take down the pot, (2) if he does call he will probably check to you on the river, (3) you are still able to get away from the hand if he check raises you, and (4) you might actually hit on the river.

 

[Dr_Dick]

Oops...was typing the post as everyone else responded. And I guess a combination of the "IMO are low probability" scenarios played itself out. He was making a move with crap 85os and caught a small piece of the flop.

I still stand by my recommendation. I would have bet, just as you did but there is no way I would have called the reraise all-in with A high in my hand.

 

[Jillychemung]

I guess I kinda overplayed my hand then. I guess I thought I was invincible and he was tired of me pushing the table around.

Yep a bit over aggressive, you have to fold to the AI there w/ no pair and no draw.

Ballsy play by the SB, guess he thought that your run of hands just couldn't last.

 

[baudib1]

I didn't realize this was BvB. I push this preflop always.

 

[mfturq]

I like a check behind on the turn

 

[Reducto]

Without knowing anything else about the opponent, the behavior through the check could mean any number of things:
Small or mid pocket pair (possibly a set) and he wants to see how much you'll bet.
Two high cards that didn't hit.
Weak ace which may have a draw or pair with that board
Complete bluff.

The all in raise after the check with a larger stack reeks of a bully move with a weak hand. If he has KQ or somesuch he's going to fold. If he has ANYTHING he's going to call because he has so many chips in already and would be in the lead. There aren't many hands you can beat here he would call except maybe AQ or a decent draw. So you're either collecting chips you would have gotten anyway or giving a bunch more away.

A smaller bet, say 6k would actually show more strength - you'd look like you want him to call and get pot committed. You might be able to push out a couple more hands like a small pair. If he reraises he likely has you beat and you're out fewer chips. If he calls he may still have you beat but is less likely to push after the river because he expects you to bet again.

Checking would also be valid but you're pretty much giving up at that point. He'll bet on the river and you'll have to fold unless an A or K comes. Even if it does you'll have to worry about something like A4

 

[Inscore77]

With your stack, I like just shoving this pf

 

[heyyou01]

A common mistake when people have big hands like AA,KK,AK,AJ etc is that there over played

Pre Flop: You did the right thing and called
Flop:Why did u call was that the minimum bet?
Turn:Good Check


River:Nothing improved it just made ur opponent stronger his cards and his chips, i try to stay away from hands that your chasing

 

[baudib1]

Seriously, just shove AK vs. the SB raise always. It protects you from getting into situations like this.

 

[riabylaw]

yeah, I would have been shoving preflop as well. But that is hindsight.

 

[Irexes]

No reason at at all to shove preflop. You've built a stack that enables you to play poker. Why give him the chance to clean you out with AA or KK, or flip with JJ etc. He's not calling with anything you dominate very often so you're either losing or flipping for a big pot or winning a small one.

(seriously why shove a 100bb stack in a tourney with AK, ever)

The turn bet doesn't achieve much either as there's not much folding you are losing to. Take the free card and hope to hit. If he checks the river and it's a scare card even if you miss then perhaps a stab there is an idea.

As played calling the shove on the turn is the real horror though, no need to cripple yourself.

 

[baudib1]

This is BvB, are you kidding? SB doesn't show up with AA/KK here like, ever.

We shove because we have enormous FE precisely because of our stack size; 80% of the time we have the best hand and he's folding his small-medium pairs (22-99) almost always.

If you don't like the shove then three-bet to $6,000.

But seriously, shove this 100% of the time.

 

[Irexes]

Not being desperate to get it in with AK is I think one of the most significant things I've learned.

The SB has raised over a limper, why this can't be AA or KK I have no idea.

Don't shove this 100% of the time. But what do I know.

 

[Irexes]

We shove because we have enormous FE precisely because of our stack size; 80% of the time we have the best hand and he's folding his small-medium pairs (22-99) almost always.

Of course we have huge fold equity, but we win a small pot or flip/lose a big one.

Why? What possible benefit is there in that, when a smaller reraise gives the chance to play poker with our stack and generates a lot of FE anyway.

 

[nevadanick]

Not being desperate to get it in with AK is I think one of the most significant things I've learned.

The SB has raised over a limper, why this can't be AA or KK I have no idea.

Don't shove this 100% of the time. But what do I know.

roflmao. Guess that's why an AK shove pf goes to the muck so often.

AK sure looks pretty, especially suited, but is so often more like a bumblebee than a honey bee. It just keeps stinging, stinging and stinging.

 

[ftph8sme]

checkin that turn will win you a lot more money in the long run. i dont like the call on the flop though. you have to think someone folded one or more of your outs dropping your odds greatly. I usually fold a flop that i dont hit with AK depending on the situation