late stage of mtt,what to do with this hand?

[magicius]

hello people... played 0.55 cap at point of this hand i was place nr 6-8 and villian was like 4-6...
poker stars, $0.50 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 75 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: 277 (0.3 bb)
SB: 16,582 (20.7 bb)
Hero (BB): 35,025 (43.8 bb)
MP1: 37,062 (46.3 bb)
MP2: 3,800 (4.8 bb)
MP3: 7,394 (9.2 bb)
CO: 18,907 (23.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

Q

MP1 raises to 1,600, 3 folds, BTN calls 202 and is all-in, SB calls 1,200, Hero raises to 34,950 and is all-in, MP1 calls 33,350, SB folds

Flop: (72,227) 3

J

J

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (72,227) 5

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (72,227) K

(3 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: 72,227 pot
Final Board: 3

J

J

5

K

BTN showed 9

2

and lost (-277 net)
Hero showed Q

Q

and lost (-35,025 net)
MP1 showed A

K

and won 72,227 (37,202 net)

when you get hand like this in late stage,what is best to do? postflop play? dunno if i did right move,villian had same stats as me 20/14
i was expecting him to fold and if i have won that hand i would have huge advantage and would be in FT 99%....

what do you think?

 

[horizon12]

Shove will be mistake vs villain with stats 20/14 , most of the time he will fold against push 43bb ... In preflop need only 3bet and if villain shove easy call.... Call preflop also a good option...

 

[jj20002]

shoving 43 BB with a monster when a opp raises to 2 BB is not the properly way to play it preflop, you should 3 bet

 

[Johnsontheman]

Yea is better choice, BUT, my choice might have been a smooth call to let him think he is in control of hand / pot. Then after the player almost always continuation bets, you can make your stand. Although I prefer to wait till turn to do it usually because there is only 1 card left to come. Equals more folders

 

[BullWink]

The raise to 3BB should have provided information that you are up against probably AK or high pocket pair. Even against AK, you are in a coin flip if you go all in. Although its a coin flip (IF he calls), there is the advantage that he could fold and therefor I think you win more than 50% with pushing all-in. If this person usually folded when you pushed all your chips, then I would definitely do it. If you were big chip leader (so loosing wouldn't knock you out of the tourney), I would do it.

But if you are average stack, then the likely coin flip all-in is probably a big gamble for the tourney. If you win, you are sitting very well to finish high in the game, but if you loose, you will likely be out.

I think I like best the strategy by Johnstontheman the best. Raise him and then make the all-in bet if the flop doesn't have an Ace or King.

 

[hffjd2000]

Its a coinflip. Your move isnt a mistake.

Just got unlucky on the river.

 

[babydrago9]

There is no point in shoving 40+bb in this spot unless you want to play at this stage in the tournament to get lucky. Your stack has so much manoeuvrability it doesn't need to be used like a 10bb stack. Think about what your move does in this spot, do better hands call? Yes, do worser hands call? No, except for AK. So basically shoving so many BBs is just asking to be put in a coin flip or against a hand which your a huge underdog too, if you want to isolate just do a smaller raise.

 

[Arjonius]

Its a coinflip. Your move isnt a mistake.

This is post facto. When you have to decide what to do, you don't know it's a flip, so what matters more is his range since that's what factors into your decision.

 

[the_wonk]

I definitely raise and I definitely don't jam that deep. I probably pop to 5600 total, then bet 55% pot on flop and stack off if villain shoves.

 

[thatgreekdude]

Ya I think 3b smaller and be willing to call off a shove from villain. If we just 3bet we can jam a lot of boards.

 

[magicius]

Ok guys, lets say i didnt shove but rather i did 3bet and mp1 calls it...what than? Check flop and fold to raises? Call raise fold river?

 

[WiZZiM]

the key you need to think about here is the tournament is not won In this hand so jamming when you get called only by ak jj plus isnt a great idea when we can get a lot more value by 3betting smaller and keeping hands like 55 a9s etc in the pot. thus we make more money vs those hands which would just fold to our shove but sure when we know he has ak were going to lose some value when we 3bet small and bet the flop or turn.. sure we might have to fold sometimes too. but since we never actually know someones hand we have to range them and play vs his range not specifically ak....

magic your questions above make no sense... he hasnt raised us but its just two outcomes in a decisin tree of many outcomes you are.missing. so the flop is jjx we basically smash this flop and villain is going to like the flop also with a lot of his jj to 55 type hands that might call our small 3bet. also id expect hands like ak to not be able to fold to a single bet postflop so id bet expecting to be called often on this board..

 

[WiZZiM]

turn would be a 5 which is another blank the obly thing it completes is the set for 55 but its less likely since its the lowest pair i think he might call with so its the lowest pair in his range thus its less likely to be in there.

now since we wouod 3bet to a size of lets say 4k the pot on the flop will be 9500ish we bet 6500 since we expect calls making the pot on the turn around 22k and we have a pot sized shove left. so if villain has his 55 to jj hes going to have a hard time calling but he would also very likely fold to a shove preflop anyways so we just extracted more from that part of his range.

hope that rambling helps was written as i thought it out. im also writing this with my iphone so forgive my spelling errors

 

[Syltan]

You had 43 BB, 3 Bet not all-in , the more you second at the table and were shoved onto the stack which knocks you out .

 

[matiusaa]

You should make a 3bet but if this was final table I don't know if I would go allin considering the payout structure

 

[felting]

I would have called preflop. Here's why. If we 3bet(even more so if we 3bet all in) we are restricting his range to about TT-AA, AQ, and AK. So we beat TT and JJ while tying with QQ(least likely hand because we have two of the Q's already). We are in good shape against AQ(also unlikely) and in a race against AK. Worse Yet we get crushed by KK and AA.

If we flat here we keep his range at something more like 77-AA, and any two broadway cards. Which range do you want to play against?

Now with that flop, you donk out with half the pot and he has wiffed, How hard is it for him to call then?

 

[felting]

Ok guys, lets say i didnt shove but rather i did 3bet and mp1 calls it...what than? Check flop and fold to raises? Call raise fold river?

If you 3bet and he calls donk open the flop or c/r. Alternative would be to smooth call flop and donk shove any card not an A or K on turn(reps a J).

 

[horizon12]

Ok guys, lets say i didnt shove but rather i did 3bet and mp1 calls it...what than? Check flop and fold to raises? Call raise fold river?

With your size stack very hard fold , in flop need cbet around 30% of the pot and further already to think what to do... My opinion I would call this shove in flop if villain shove , because set not so will often , range villain can be like pairs ( 88 99 TT ) or AKs AQs with flush draw....

 

[Ambur]

3bet preflop and even a solid cbet on flop you are not pot commited!

Othe possibility is to mix it up and just cold call preflop!