KK vs Donk

[umofo]

Early on. So no reads on anyone yet. Was the preflop raise enough? I didn't expect so many people to call! I was only one off the button!

***** Game number #16569222670 *****
Tournament #83910536, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/04/07 - 23:32:19 (ET)
Table '83910536 2' 9-max
Seat 1 (BTN) has the button.
SB posts small blind [10]
BB posts big blind [20]
Seat 1 : BTN with 1430 chips.
Seat 2 : SB with 6800 chips.
Seat 3 : BB with 1180 chips.
Seat 4 : UTG with 1440 chips.
Seat 5 : MP1 with 1280 chips.
Seat 7 : MP2 with 1120 chips.
Seat 9 : Hero with 1430 chips.

** Dealing hole cards **
Dealt to Hero :

Sklansky group: 1
UTG: folds
MP1 calls [20]
MP2: folds
Hero raises 40 to 60
BTN calls [60]
SB calls [50]
BB: folds
MP1 calls [40]
** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: 260]

SB: checks
MP1: checks
Hero bets [160]
BTN calls [160]
SB: folds
MP1: folds
** Dealing Turn ** [Potsize: 580]

Hero bets [340]
BTN raises 870 to 1210 [ all-in ]
Hero ?????

 

[theskillzdatklls]

early bet was not enough. i try to avoid dumb early game encounters such as the following. bet big enough early game to get 1-2 callers, not 3. i would have raised to 120. post flop bet was good.

following that you just need to guess, i would probably call in that situation and just take whatever comes at me good or bad.

 

[umofo]

So a preflop raise to about 100 would have been better? Or is that still not enough?

 

[Jillychemung]

100 is perfect and if the BTN still called then 3/4 pot on that flop.

 

[CfPoker]

As a general rule you want to raise 3-5x the big blind here, plus 1 big blind for every limper before you, so 100ish is about right. When the blinds are tiny you also might like to add a bit more on because you'll find people calling small raises as they don't mean much in relation to stack sizes.

 

[umofo]

Ok, thanks for the tips guys. If I was in an earlier position, say UTG + 1, should I raise even more? To say 160?

1Balance3: raises 870 to 1210 and is all-in
uniquemofo: calls 870 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2c 6h Js 4d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uniquemofo: shows [Kd Ks] (a pair of Kings)
1Balance3: shows [5h 3h] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
1Balance3 collected 3000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3000 | Rake 0
Board [2c 6h Js 4d Ad]
Seat 1: 1Balance3 (button) showed [5h 3h] and won (3000) with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 2: prison wayne (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: FresnoMike1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: sadsack55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: stranger999 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: prov1stud folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: uniquemofo showed [Kd Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings

 

[CfPoker]

Your objective is to thin the field, so a bigger than usual raise when you're UTG isn't a bad idea. If you just do a 3x raise and get a caller you might see the effect where the pot odds are getting more and more inviting so more people call.

As for this hand here, unlucky. Villian had no right to be in this pot in the first place, and his flop call was just as bad.

 

[stuart4580@hotmail.com]

i hate pocket kings or aces i allways lose to two live cards

 

[soonerdel]

a disgusting beat.. villian should have never been in the hand in the first place.. but in $1 tourneys expect any donk to have atc's...

 

[CfPoker]

This isn't a "disgustig beat". Yes, you were 4:1 favourite, but you have to accept that you won't win all of these. Given the action on the hand... the flop bet was called, and he went over the top of the turn bet... this really cannot be seen as a disgusting beat.

 

[umofo]

I agree, its not even a bad beat, most of the chips went in when I was behind! But lesson is learned. Raise more preflop to narrow down range of opponents' cards

 

[royalburrito24]

i hate pocket kings or aces

Allergic to money as well?

 

[mrsnake3695]

I disagree that villian had no business in the pot. The bet was only 60 and he is going to have position throughout the hand. His call was also prob going to bring in either or both of the blinds which is good for him. His imlied odds are thru the roof since if he hits he can stack you which is exactly what he did. Also, your bet from the CO could be a steal attempt and with him having position he could take the pot from you later.

In this circumstance i would prob play 3-5 suited also.

You must bet more that the "book" says in small stakes online games. Early when the blinds are low and every one has lots of chips any bet less than 100+ is not respected. Any hand someone would limp in with they would also call a bet of less than 100. This is more true the lower the stakes where people like to play lots of pots. Make people pay to play against you with worse starting hands. Don't worry about pushing everyone out it usually won't happen anyway.

 

[umofo]

Thanks mrsnake. I understand why he was in the pot up until the flop, but why would he call my flop bet?
If I was in his situation here I would fold... Isn't it long run profitable to fold gutshot straights (4 outs) against a 2/3 pot bet?

 

[Steveg1976]

I am no expert so FWIW - Long term you are right it is a mistake, but this isn't long term this is only one hand. Also it is early, chips are cheap and he will still have plenty if he misses the turn and can shut it down. Like Snake said you betting has to be bigger early to get respect. Hands like this are why sometimes to switch it up we chase gut shot straights etc. just my thoughts

 

[mrsnake3695]

Thanks mrsnake. I understand why he was in the pot up until the flop, but why would he call my flop bet?
If I was in his situation here I would fold... Isn't it long run profitable to fold gutshot straights (4 outs) against a 2/3 pot bet?

yes but please keep in mind that the vast majority of players you will find online, especially at these levels have no concept of pot odds. They see your weak bets and figure you have nothing and they have a chance (see calling station). Just becuase you wouldn't do something doesn't mean someone else won't.

I am not say he was correct in calling your flop bet just that there are many many players that will.