KK in rebuy......Flop sucks....

F

Freakakanus

Legend
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
3,349
Right or wrong move here? Rebuy period is over btw......


pokerstars Game #16784275827: Tournament #84460498, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2008/04/16 - 22:14:58 (ET)
Table '84460498 259' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Freakakanus (16875 in chips)
Seat 2: hexas-toldem (7017 in chips)
Seat 3: kmaihb (14742 in chips)
Seat 4: poorker (18470 in chips)
Seat 5: baffon (16524 in chips)
Seat 6: asskme69 (8093 in chips)
Seat 7: hacker59 (13782 in chips)
Seat 8: kid_psionic (19575 in chips)
Seat 9: skeegers (14900 in chips)
Freakakanus: posts the ante 50
hexas-toldem: posts the ante 50
kmaihb: posts the ante 50
poorker: posts the ante 50
baffon: posts the ante 50
asskme69: posts the ante 50
hacker59: posts the ante 50
kid_psionic: posts the ante 50
skeegers: posts the ante 50
Freakakanus: posts small blind 200
hexas-toldem: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Freakakanus [Ks Kd]
kmaihb: folds
poorker: folds
baffon: folds
asskme69: calls 400
hacker59: folds
kid_psionic: calls 400
skeegers: folds
Freakakanus: raises 1600 to 2000
hexas-toldem: folds
asskme69: calls 1600
kid_psionic: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ad Qs As]
Freakakanus: checks
asskme69: bets 6043 and is all-in
Freakakanus: folds
asskme69 collected 5250 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5250 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Qs As]
Seat 1: Freakakanus (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: hexas-toldem (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: kmaihb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: poorker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: baffon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: asskme69 collected (5250)
Seat 7: hacker59 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: kid_psionic folded before Flop
Seat 9: skeegers (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
progress.gif
 
fcumred

fcumred

Visionary
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Total posts
588
Right move.

In fact its a no brainer for me.
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
3,349
I have no brain so I often make the wrong move.....
 
B

Bentheman87

Guest
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Total posts
794
Bad fold, laying down KK after just one bet. His M is only 8 and he saw weakness from you, your check.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,974
I have no brain so I often make the wrong move.....

I think the best hand he has here is a crappy ace, but most often he's doing this with a queen to keep you from betting him off (prepared to bite the bullet as the aggressor). Pretty marginal, I guess it's pretty read dependent. Can't see why he's betting into the aggressor with an ace though.
 
fcumred

fcumred

Visionary
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Total posts
588
I would hazard a guess and say hes got AK or AQ.

If he had AA I would have expected him to re-raise you pre-flop. He would want to fill the pot up to the absolute max.

I Suspect he actually had AK or AQ but for my liking he seems to have put too much into the pot pre flop for it to be AQ so I suspect he had AK. There was a potential flush draw so naturally he didnt want to risk slow playing and giving you the chance of hitting the flush.


You did the right thing and limited the damage. One step further and you would have had it.
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
3,349
Bad fold, laying down KK after just one bet. His M is only 8 and he saw weakness from you, your check.

but the extra 6k represented almost half my stack........ that's what I was thinking

I think the best hand he has here is a crappy ace, but most often he's doing this with a queen to keep you from betting him off (prepared to bite the bullet as the aggressor). Pretty marginal, I guess it's pretty read dependent. Can't see why he's betting into the aggressor with an ace though.

I really had an Ace feeling...... since he called my preflop raise

I would hazard a guess and say hes got AK or AQ.

If he had AA I would have expected him to re-raise you pre-flop. He would want to fill the pot up to the absolute max.

I Suspect he actually had AK or AQ but for my liking he seems to have put too much into the pot pre flop for it to be AQ so I suspect he had AK. There was a potential flush draw so naturally he didnt want to risk slow playing and giving you the chance of hitting the flush.


You did the right thing and limited the damage. One step further and you would have had it.


Wasn't sure if it was AK or AQ but I really thought an ace.....
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,974
Problem is he's hopefully reraising with AK and i have a hard time putting him on any other aces
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,974
yeah but he also could call pf raises with KQs or depending on the fishiness it could be QJ or something too
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
3,349
True true........ I think I got scared... poo on me... I almost called but I so would have felt like shit if he turned Ace rag on me....
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,583
Awards
1
Agree that it's pretty marginal and read dependent.

The line just doesn't fit a monster like AK / AQ / QQ: why would they flat call you pre-flop, and then why would they shove this flop?!?

I think you're more likely to be up against either KQ, QJ, a weak ace or a bluff.

The weak ace is probably the most likely as all the other hands would surely have to fear that, as the pre-flop aggessor, you could have an ace and that shoving into you could be suicidal.

Maybe AT/AJ - they'll figure you might've been getting cute with a lower suited ace or something, and they're ahead of anything except the highest aces and QQ if they get called.

Since we've only invested a small amount in this hand so far, I think we just throw it in the "too hard" basket, fold and move on.
 
Melkor

Melkor

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Total posts
305
Bad fold, laying down KK after just one bet. His M is only 8 and he saw weakness from you, your check.

It doesn't matter how many bets, the flop is what matters.

I would say though, it is quite tough to make a bet on that flop for freakakanus that doesn't get him committed to the pot. 2500 or less is pretty weak, and if that re-raise comes the odds say call. Plus, the all-in more-than-the-pot bet makes it look like a queen but the villain can't do much but shove with his stack even with an ace.

I would say I could very well have called just because AK is not likely due to our two kings and the pf action then it is working out how often it is something like A8, A9 and how often it is a queen. Very tough spot, I probably make call against my instincts and cry.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
It doesn't matter if it looks like a bluff or not. The villian played his position well. If it was a bluff, so what. Good play by him. You still have more chips than he does and can play freely onward. The likelyhood of AQ, QQ, or any Ace here outweighs the need to bust this guy. In tourneys, you gotta look at the big picture. It's not worth the risk to call here.

I say: Good fold and rock the next hand.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

Legend
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Total posts
1,631
You cant call here u have to fold whther u think you are beat or not

if he has rag ace u cant give half ure chips to him on it so far u lost small and got away with a playable stack u call he has the a u lost big and are crippled

in rebuys easier chips will come your way

Edit Sticker said it batter same thing pretty much didnt read his post oops
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
I think this is a lot closer than a lot of you are making it out to be.

Because it won't look to villain like you have an Ace (both statistically and because of your flop check), he could be doing this with some Qx hands, flush draws, or even total air. AK doesn't generally limp-call, AQ probably doesn't shove the flop (and both the above hands are unlikely from a purely statistical perspective), so maybe we're looking at AJ/AT as two realistic hands villain could have that beat us and make sense, with some weaker Aces if we have an 'overvalues Ax hands' line on villain.

If we're behind, we have the small consolation of (probably) 2 outs and a couple of runnig draws to fall back on. Plus we're not calling off our stack - if we call and lose it's a hit but we'd still be sitting on a decent stack.

This is really close imo, and I would find myself making herocalls here sometimes, I'm sure. That said, I can't fault the fold at all, but I can fault those who are saying or implying that this isn't a close decision.
 
F

feitr

Legend
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Total posts
1,570
Yea i don't think he has to have an ace here. Statistically he is probably putting you on a hand like TT/JJ when all the aces come up and you check, so he could very well be shoving knowing that you can't really call.

PERSONALLY, i don't think that the wa/wb concept applies when you are OOP. If you check a scary flop you allow anybody who missed to take a stab at the pot (and why wouldn't they...if they missed that is their one chance to win the pot) because they have position on you. I'd lead out here i think (1.5k or so is probably enough) then fold to a shove. I honestly think he would shove with Qx tho, because if he isn't putting you on an ace then KK is most likely the only hand you have him beat unless you have him outkicked (and in a pot like this the kicker might not matter coz a tie is realistic if you both have a Q). If he really hit trip aces i don't think overbetting the pot that much is a likely move...really seems more like he has a Q and is trying to chase you off the pot. I'd fold in a heartbeat if only a single ace was on the flop, but with aces pairing it is a hard decision because not only is it less likely that he hit the aces, but also less likely that he thinks that you hit the aces, so he is more likely to bluff at it.

And if he was playing pretty loose preflop, i think i'd call this no matter what. If he was playing fairly tight however, i can fully understand why you are scared of him having an ace since KQ/QJ or an underpair are about the only hands you have beat.

As played you probably have to fold, but i disagree with a flop check here. In position, sure check the flop, but OOP i don't think you can allow somebody to take a stab at a pot like this. The ONLY reason he would check the flop is if he had decided to completely give up on the pot and check/fold, which is unlikely given the size of the pot to his stack.
 
widowmaker89

widowmaker89

Visionary
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Total posts
514
I find it very hard to beleive he has AK AQ or QQ here. IF he floped a house I highly doubt he is pushing here. AK probably doesnt play this way either. I doubt he limps with AK but goes all in with trips? It could be a deception play here pushing with a really good hand but I find that not too likely.

WA/WB doesnt really work here because he is so low and has only a bit more than the pot. Since its a tourny this isnt going to be kept low.

If you had any information on this guy it would be very helpful to put him on a hand PF.

I think this is a call though. Very few players push here with and A, and he shouldnt really be worried about a draw here, what could you be drawing with? I would guess he has a middle pair here, maybe QJ or KQ.

The odds here are too good to fold I think, you are getting over 1.8:1 and I dont really see a push with an A here. You checked and showed weakness and he though he could take this down.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
I think when you see this flop your plan should be to check-call. Check-fold here is extremely weak. There are a lot more hands without an ace that fit his betting that hands with one.
 
mickmate

mickmate

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Total posts
29
yep, you gotta call that,even if it did come out as he had an ace or whatever, u still had 8k to recover from, so yeah i wouldnt of even thought twice about calling
 
Top