KK on the button first hand of a live tourney.

[IVEverLow]

So, I'm at a local bar playing a tourney tonight and get dealt KK on the button first hand with the blinds at 25/50. I'm second in chips at the table (you get extra chips for certain things) and there's 5 limpers in front of me, including big stack at the table. I pop it up to 350 when it comes around to me and all 5 limpers call to see the flop.


Flop: 4c 5c 4s

First to act bets out 300. One caller. Next guy raises to 500 and big stack calls.....

What is my move here?

(Sorry about my format btw)

 

[AcesorKings]

How big is your stack? And your opponents´?

 

[IVEverLow]

I was at 3500, four of the 5 limpers were at 2500, and big stack was 4000

 

[bw07507]

As much as it sucks, I think you have to fold this one. I cant see one of them not having a 4 or maybe 55

 

[Emperor IX]

I agree with BW, but what the hell did big stack do to get near twice as many chips as everyone else? lol

 

[AcesorKings]

The problem is that even if you aren´t behind right now, you won´t know where you stand later in the hand. Which cards are you afraid of? Any club could make someone a flush. Any eight, seven, six, deuce, trey or ace could make someone a straight (and the ace is of course scary for other reasons, too). A five won´t make you happy either.

And at the same time, if we again presume that you´re ahead, you won´t get paid for your hand. Fives and small overpairs will fold for any substantial action, and any hand you currently beat will be cautious, as will you.

And finally, if you are behind, you´re way behind. odds of improvement are very slim. This is a good example of a hand with extremely bad reversed implied odds.

 

[IVEverLow]

You get 500 extra chips if you've won a tourney there before and bring your "champ" shirt, 500 for getting there before a certain time, 100 per drink and 300 per food.

 

[AcesorKings]

You get 500 extra chips if you've won a tourney there before and bring your "champ" shirt, 500 for getting there before a certain time, 100 per drink and 300 per food.

So, I guess big stack´s checklist looked something like this:

Early arrival: 500
Ten bears: 1000

 

[joeeagles]

Easy fold. I can't possibly trust KK anymore if another 5 players are in.

Out of curiosity, how much is the buy-in? Because it sounds like a real donkfest, you raise to 350 with blinds at 25/50 and get 5 callers. A crapshoot. (he buy-in question means no offense to you).

 

[IVEverLow]

Shirt, early and some food I presume.

Needless to say, with 3350 already in the pot, I thought (kinda new to this whole thing) if you got it than you got it... If someone was going to draw to a flush, I wanted them to pay to catch it. I honestly wouldn't expect anyone holding a single 4 to be in the hand with the preflop raise. 55 would have been a little stretch, but if someone was holding it, I wanted to see.

I pushed hoping that even if I did get called that big stack would fold, leaving me with 1000 chips to keep playing with.

Everyone folded to big stack who had to call and flipped over Qs4d. Now I'm playing the microlimits on bodog with the rest of his family.

 

[IVEverLow]

Easy fold. I can't possibly trust KK anymore if another 5 players are in.

Out of curiosity, how much is the buy-in? Because it sounds like a real donkfest, you raise to 350 with blinds at 25/50 and get 5 callers. A crapshoot. (he buy-in question means no offense to you).

It's a free tourney that pays cash to the winner. I don't usually go, but I've had a losing streak on Bodog and figured I'd play for free to cool off.

 

[eyetrace]

Yeah, large pockets are nothing if you have that many callers, and the way that table called a 7x raise after limping, you are looking at a few fish, a donkey, and the smart guy that sat on a big pair or something. If you have this many people in a pot, the strength of a large pocket is destroyed. Just look at the odds of a game on TV. If you have rockets and you are up against 2 live cards and will normally show the percentage to be about or above 80% before the flop. if there are 4 or more players the percentage will plummet to somewhere around the 30% area, (could be inaccurate in the percents I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) In this situation I might try to hang on to my chip stack by checking to see if anyone makes any suspicious moves, or (and yes I know the moderator hates these) mini bet to see where I am. The large bet let you know that your kings are most likely no good, but the check or the mini bet could have told you the same information if someone is holding a monster. If you saw this last season of High Steaks Phil Ivey Laid down KK, it was from a bluff, but there was no ace on board and he let it go, wrong move in that situation, but it shows he is disciplined enough to throw away cowboys.

 

[dj11]

It sure ain't an easy fold, but it is a prudent one.

With that many limper's one of them has to have a 4. Its early, and there is no need to go broke on a bad beat.

Many players will like an A4 suited.

 

[aliengenius]

Shove. Everyone calls. Watch better show 66, caller shows a gut shot, raiser shows JJ, big stack shows overcards, and you then proceed to lose. Go drink. Start with a few shots, tell your bad beat story, more shots, then beers for the rest of the night.

 

[belladonna05]

Was at a live tourney(60 buy in) with kings dealt first hand.raised up 4 times big blind one caller. Bet pot on flop all undercards and rainbow(been a couple months not that memorable),bet pot and he raised, I called went to turn and he bet out huge, I just knew i was beat and layed them down. Sure enough he had hit trip 3s on the flop and was kind enough to show me. Everyone said I shouldve gone all in from the flop and glad I didnt. I dont know why they thought that wouldve been a good move lol.

 

[blankoblanco]

Raise to 350 with 5 limpers is a little on the smallish side.. 400-450 (3x-4x BB + 1 for each limper) looks better. And in a live game at a local bar people are going to be even bigger fish/calling stations --as evident by all 5 of them calling lol-- so you ought to go ahead and make it at least 500, IMO.

On flop just fold. You're rarely ahead and these players are likely horrible so you can find much better spots to take all their money.

 

[jaymfc]

fold , cry a little , and wait for that lock on the flop that they will all call later. way to many people , one def. has a 4 or 2 5s , you need 5 card hand against them anytime cause they will call you down to river and suck out on you. lol . i'd go all in preflop on the next monster , but it will be coin flip everytime with so many lag players. they should name them freeluckyidiotrolls . (all freerolls not just yours lol ) no matter how good you are you wont win without LOTS of luck