KJ in MTT, raised limped pot

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Before I even raised PF, I decided I was gonna make a HA thread about this hand since I was so unsure with what to do; was I too aggressive preflop? Not aggressive enough (bet size)?

My reads were that the table was tightening up a bit with the blinds going up, and I was seen as a TAG player after coming to the table about 5 or 7 hands ago and folding every one. Chip stacks are roughly 5K, 4.5K and 11K for reddude, DerMacher, and I respectively.

I think I bet alright on the flop with 2 others in the pot (which is at 5400), with both showing weakness, but my question is geared more towards PF, and whether or not I should limp, fold, or raise (and how much). I got more callers than I'd hoped, and am thinking that maybe a 4-5BB raise would have suited the situation better...or maybe even a limp...i dunno - and that's why I'm posting this :D

Thoughts?
 

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t1riel

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I think you played it fine. I think you were a little too aggressive after the flop but if they both fold, I wouldn't mind winning the pot right there with two diamonds on the board.
 
Schatzdog

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I think that looks good. The PF raise is big enough without being too big if that makes sense. If they are going to call that sized raise they'll call pretty much anything else. It's done it's job.

The flop play is pretty good too. Not giving odds to chase and showing strength. You know where you're at.

This is my question. What would you do if either check-raised you?

By the way do you have any additional info like reads or styles?
 
Jack Daniels

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You were maybe seen as a TAG and on the button, so the raise with one limper in front is good, IMO.

The flop is only coordinated in diamonds, so I think your bet was a good size. You're in position with a pretty good hand.

Schatzdog does bring up a good point about the checkraise. You had the limper call $1200 more PF. He may not be giving you credit because of the button raise, or he could be on a big hand.

I'd like to see a bit more of the hand now to see where it goes next.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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This is my question. What would you do if either check-raised you?

By the way do you have any additional info like reads or styles?


1) I've bet enough to put one of them all in, and to put the other all but all in, so It's an easy call for me based on odds. I'm very sure my opponents don't have QQ-AA here because surely they would have reraised PF with that many people in, but a set is a possibility (66 sounds about right). Either way, I've bet enough that I'll have to call if they check-raise me. The only hands I'm scared of that are actually likely are AJ, 66 and maybe 22...though deuces are pretty unlikely. AJ would have raised PF I think aswell.

2) I had only recently sat down at the table, but so far reddude is playing a little tighter than DerMacher. I found out in later hands that DerMacher is a very loose-aggressive/passive player, and made some pretty ridiculous calls later on (see his hand below :p).

Schatzdog does bring up a good point about the checkraise. You had the limper call $1200 more PF. He may not be giving you credit because of the button raise, or he could be on a big hand.

Like I said above, I'm really not scared of an overpair, and the only hands that really have me beat that suit the play so far are AJ and 66.


I wanted this thread to be more about the preflop play; though it seems really simple, I think that more discussion is needed - at least for me to understand what the best play is.

Is KJ good enough to be raising here against relatively unknown opponents? What was running through my head is that I should make a 5 or 6BB bet to take the pot down, or get a single caller, but I just plain didn't want to put that much in the pot with a hand that week...maybe that's just me being paranoid. I think that a bigger raise (or maybe even a limp?) would have been better. I'm giving the BB and both limpers 2.5:1 odds on their hand with a 4BB raise; good enough to call for the average $5 rebuy donkey (though I didn't have reads yet on the players). Not only that, but if one player calls, then the next player is being given even better odds, and is therefore more likely to call, which is what happened. I can't calculate that fast in my head (what odds I'm giving my opponent), and I think I'm going to actually make a formula to use during hands.

Anyways....all this discussion, and you're going to laugh at the results :/
This was a $5 rebuy after all, be it after the break or not...
 

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Jack Daniels

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First of all, you were right...LOL @ results. You got donked big time. I can't believe he called that preflop raise with that. Actually I can't believe he limped to start, then called that raise. LOL

Having seen that, I don't know if I can give a good non-results oriented response.

Is KJ good enough to be raising here against relatively unknown opponents? What was running through my head is that I should make a 5 or 6BB bet to take the pot down, or get a single caller, but I just plain didn't want to put that much in the pot with a hand that week...maybe that's just me being paranoid. I think that a bigger raise (or maybe even a limp?) would have been better.

If this was an opening raise, 4BB should have been sufficient. If you weren't going to just limp, then you are correct in wanting to raise more than 4BB.

I think 6BB raise is right here, IMO. That accounts for a normal raise plus the limper money plus eliminating the extra odds for the BB or limper. With 6BB, even if the BB calls, the limper is only getting like 2.7 to 1 to call. With a big raise and call in front of him, 2.7 to 1 are not good odds unless he has a monster (or super donk). Oh, and if the BB folds, then this is getting like 1.7 to 1 to call which is that much worse. But, again, if you don't like those large amounts, then limping is best.
 
Schatzdog

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I realize I didn't really address the point of your post in the first place. I think the two options for this hand PF are raise or fold. I just can't see limping as a good option because your opponents could be holding anything. Agreed you got called by K2 but that is just bad play IMO.

As to the size of the raise see my first post.

Good points as to the check-raise I mentioned. I didn't really assess the stack sizes all that closely.

Horrible result by the way but such is poker.
 
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