JT for trips; 500K GTD

[ChuckTs]

No reads; I've just been moved from my original table.

How can we get the most out of this hand?

full tilt poker Game #2889265054: $500,000 Guarantee (21473150), Table 156 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:20:10 ET - 2007/07/08
Seat 1: ChuckTs (3,230)
Seat 2: clublonergan (4,302)
Seat 3: nathanjah (2,990)
Seat 4: Only_the_nutz (3,353)
Seat 5: hugoboss99 (3,841)
Seat 6: jwpoker4 (3,100)
Seat 7: luckystraw (2,875)
Seat 8: Seb Beral (4,589)
Seat 9: rusostreet (1,950), is sitting out
nathanjah posts the small blind of 15
Only_the_nutz posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Jh Th]
hugoboss99 folds
jwpoker4 raises to 95
luckystraw has 15 seconds left to act
luckystraw is sitting out
luckystraw has timed out
luckystraw folds
Seb Beral folds
rusostreet folds
ChuckTs calls 95
clublonergan folds
nathanjah folds
Only_the_nutz is sitting out
Only_the_nutz folds
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2h Td]
jwpoker4 bets 120
luckystraw has reconnected
luckystraw has returned
ChuckTs ...

 

[premierplayer]

throw out a small bet i guess. hope he thinks your bluffing and re-raises. you can then re-raise his raise or go over the top on him and make him crumble.

 

[Irexes]

When I read the title I thought you were going to have trips with the Jack and I find that a much nastier situation as AJ and to a lesser extent KJ rear their heads.

I don't mind the call or the raise here to be honest though I think the stronger move in the long run is the raise.

If it's a raise I'm putting it at about 280 total to price him in hopefully if he has AK, AQ.

The jackpot is if he has AA-JJ which puts him in a horrible place.

Of course if he has an underpair or KJ, KQ type hand you need him to hit the turn to get more out of him unless he's a real donk.

The advantage of reraising of course is that you either win a smallish pot or a big one (I'm happy to go bust here if I'm beat and he has AT etc unless something really scary happens on the turn and/or river which tips me off).

Call and you can occassionally get lucky on the turn, but I think you need to start building this pot now to get max value on the turn and if he folds it's still not the end of the world.


In summary, either way, but I'd probably reraise here about 65% call 35%.

 

[t1riel]

I would just call. There are no straight or flush draws here. You have the best hand and chances are your opponents hand is not going to get much better. I think he has high pocket pair and the pair of tens is not what he wanted to see, which would explain the bet of 120. He wants you out of the pot or at least see where you are at. A raise will tell him you have the ten. a call will tell him you have a 2 or an Ace. I would raise on the turn no matter what it is. That should screw with his mind.

 

[blankoblanco]

I would just call. There are no straight or flush draws here. You have the best hand and chances are your opponents hand is not going to get much better. I think he has high pocket pair and the pair of tens is not what he wanted to see, which would explain the bet of 120. He wants you out of the pot or at least see where you are at. A raise will tell him you have the ten. a call will tell him you have a 2 or an Ace. I would raise on the turn no matter what it is. That should screw with his mind.

If you think he has a high pocket pair, you should RAISE. A raise will tell him we have the ten? Not at all. Really, he's at least calling, if not re-raising, almost any reasonably sized raise if he has a big pocket pair. He's not putting you on a T and folding when you raise a bone-dry board. Any player who was that nitty could be bluffed like crazy on any paired board. It's ridiculously exploitable

 

[ChuckTs]

I'd almost forgotten about this...(hardy har har, bad short-term memory etc etc)

I like the note about a raise bloating the pot a little. We want to win a big pot here obv, and just calling does exactly the opposite. It'll also make him more suspicious of a ten.

Part 2:

fulltiltpoker Game #2889265054: $500,000 Guarantee (21473150), Table 156 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:20:10 ET - 2007/07/08
Seat 1: ChuckTs (3,230)
Seat 2: clublonergan (4,302)
Seat 3: nathanjah (2,990)
Seat 4: Only_the_nutz (3,353)
Seat 5: hugoboss99 (3,841)
Seat 6: jwpoker4 (3,100)
Seat 7: luckystraw (2,875)
Seat 8: Seb Beral (4,589)
Seat 9: rusostreet (1,950), is sitting out
nathanjah posts the small blind of 15
Only_the_nutz posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Jh Th]
hugoboss99 folds
jwpoker4 raises to 95
luckystraw has 15 seconds left to act
luckystraw is sitting out
luckystraw has timed out
luckystraw folds
Seb Beral folds
rusostreet folds
ChuckTs calls 95
clublonergan folds
nathanjah folds
Only_the_nutz is sitting out
Only_the_nutz folds
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2h Td]
jwpoker4 bets 120
luckystraw has reconnected
luckystraw has returned
ChuckTs has 15 seconds left to act
ChuckTs raises to 360
jwpoker4 has 15 seconds left to act
jwpoker4 raises to 900
ChuckTs ...

Here's where I made (what I think was) my mistake...

 

[skoldpadda]

Ewwww... bawk bawk, I fold.

 

[ChuckTs]

Are you serious?

 

[buckit0]

Uh well i wouldn't fold thats for sure. You have the guy covered so I would pop all-in here. Again im pretty much a begginner so anything I say take with that in mind but yea, I'd be putting him on an over-pair. It's hard to get away from flopped trips

 

[joeeagles]

Fold? Are you crazy? If he has a better T good for him, and a ton of bad luck for Chuck, but there is no way you fold, you have to be fine with losing this if that's the case. It's much more probable he has an overpair, or maybe 2 high cards or even something like 88, 99, and he's not believing you. Flat call, and if he checks the turn check back, trying to induce another bet on the river. If you shove now he'll know he's behind and you might lose him. Of course when you call the raise to 900 it also will likely slow him down, but its still possible to get something, even if just a small value bet on the river like around 500, its better than nothing if he no longer bets out on any street. But with the flat call if its a good day for you he could fire again on the turn.

I'm thinking Chuck shoved though, and lost him. What else could the mistake be?

 

[NineLions]

So now I'm trying to guess what Chuck thinks his mistake was

At this point I'd probably call to see if I can get more in on the following streets, so maybe the mistake is a push that chases him.

 

[NineLions]

hmm, looks like joe and I are thinking alike, and at the same time ....

 

[AZE]

I'd fold, that'll REALLY mess with his head...

No, seriously.. to start, post-flop when he bets, I'm definitely re-raising and I think that was the right move. Calling is what too many people do with the set, so I think that sets the alarms off for some people - it also stops you from really being able to bet after the turn with a prompt fold.
If you bet back it looks more like you think he is trying to represent a 10, and you have something like AK (which is actually what this guy might have).

When he raises to 900, I'm not sure what to do.. it definitely looks like he's trying to scare you off the hand, so I'd probably just call - but I'm not sure that's the right move.

So what do we do here Chuck?!

 

[blankoblanco]

i'd probably just call now, play it in position. i think shoving now actually lets him get away from some big pairs, if he's good. we have no read, but it's a fairly high buy-in event, so i'd tend to assume he's not too bad or a calling station(and yes, i know there are plenty of exceptions). in his mind, the only way you can be confident enough in your hand to shove here is probably if you have AA-KK choosing to smoothcall preflop, 22, or if you have a T. with this action and absence of a read, he knows it'd be pretty reckless for you to be bluffing.

if you just call, yes, he'll be worried about a T, but you might convince him you have a stubborn medium pair and get some more value out of it

but really i think it's kind of read dependent. there are +s and -s to each approach.. you just don't know what type of player you're dealing with, so i don't think either option is bad

 

[ChuckTs]

Villain is a pretty solid player, if track records count for anything: Official Poker Rankings - jwpoker4 poker results, rankings, statistics

I think a shove pretty much says "I have your pair/bluff beat" - I'm only scaring him out. Like combu said, a smooth call may scare him into thinking I've got a ten, but a push will make him sure of it.

By calling, I could have a much wider range of hands, and he might decide to stick me in on the turn. He might check to me, in which case I could try to suck out more money from him.

Consider his raise size, too - he's left himself enough chips to fold and still be a contender. In other words, he's given himself a backup in case I shove. I didn't pay enough attention to this in the hand, and didn't have enough time to think it all through. This is where experience comes in to make the best possible play, and I didn't have enough of it.

I think a smooth call is by far the best play here.

I pushed, though, and he folded.

 

[tosborn]

I almost always do the same as you did here Chuck. BUT......Why isn't re-re-re-raising an option here?

Both stacks allow for at least one more bet before becoming commited to the hand. A raise to 1500 should still give him the odds to call.

 

[ChuckTs]

I hadn't payed enough attention to the stacks; I thought there wasn't room for that...but ya, that's certainly another option.

If we reraise to 1500, it's true that we price him in, but it is just as obvious as a push that we've got a hand that beats him. 99 and under doesn't take this line. I should by now have figured that my middle pair isn't good. I'd have to have Tx or 22 or even an oddly played KK+ to take that line. Jacks or queens are also possible, but I probably would have reraised PF, and this hand would look a lot different.

Basically in my mind, anything other than a call from me at this point spells out a BIG hand, and he's probably good enough to sense that and have the discipline to fold his JJ+.

 

[Irexes]

I'm not big on using the clock as a tool, but I wait for 20 seconds then call, reraise or push scream a 10 as you say.

Trick then is getting all his chips in on the turn or river.

Look like he got away with QQ or JJ here?

 

[ChuckTs]

That's my guess, JJ+. I think he'd have to be pretty damn disciplined to fold aces here, even kings. I still have a bunch of hands that he beats in my range, I'd think.

I like the waiting, too. Telegraph the 'tell' that we're sitting on something like 9s, and smooth call. In the hand, I took nearly the full time each time I acted - not because I was playing that waiting game, but because I was genuinely not sure what to do Trying to think too hard considering the stakes...