JJ "The Problem hand" holding 4 way all in!

[mischman]

pokerstars Game #7429062818: Tournament #38000129, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/12/13 - 18:16:42 (ET)
Table '38000129 1' 10-max Seat #10 is the button
Seat 1: HalogenNight (1220 in chips)
Seat 2: odp6291 (1160 in chips)
Seat 3: lorenz97 (1440 in chips)
Seat 4: lu620 (1320 in chips)
Seat 5: Starlett26 (5895 in chips)
Seat 6: WunLuv (690 in chips)
Seat 8: Hilary1 (2020 in chips)
Seat 10: mischman (1255 in chips)
HalogenNight: posts small blind 75
odp6291: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [Jd Js]
lorenz97: folds
lu620: calls 150
Starlett26: calls 150
WunLuv: folds
Hilary1: folds
mischman: raises 1105 to 1255 and is all-in
HalogenNight: calls 1145 and is all-in
odp6291: calls 1010 and is all-in
lu620: folds
Starlett26: calls 1105
*** FLOP *** [Kc 2c 4s]
*** TURN *** [Kc 2c 4s] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [Kc 2c 4s 2s] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Starlett26: shows [Qs Ah] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
mischman: shows [Jd Js] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
mischman collected 70 from side pot-2
HalogenNight: shows [9s 9d] (two pair, Kings and Nines)
mischman collected 180 from side pot-1
odp6291: shows [Ad Tc] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
mischman collected 4790 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5040 Main pot 4790. Side pot-1 180. Side pot-2 70. | Rake 0
Board [Kc 2c 4s 2s Kd]
Seat 1: HalogenNight (small blind) showed [9s 9d] and lost with two pair, Kings and Nines
Seat 2: odp6291 (big blind) showed [Ad Tc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 3: lorenz97 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: lu620 folded before Flop
Seat 5: Starlett26 showed [Qs Ah] and lost with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 6: WunLuv folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Hilary1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: mischman (button) showed [Jd Js] and won (5040) with two pair, Kings and Jacks

 

[zebranky]

ummm.... All in?

Sorry, I really got to disagree with your all-in bet. Nobody has bet into the pot, and you're taking a huge risk with not enough information. The amound you win just doesn't justify the risk with JJ.
If someone had already raised, I think your play would be correct - either you'll buy the pot from them, or go heads up with an overall chance to win of better than 50-50 to win (There's only 3 hands that obviously beat you - higher pairs - the rest is either the classic coinflip against two overcards, or its a smaller pair that you have covered).

The all-in is overbetting an unchallenged pot. If you want to just take down the blinds, it will probably work 70%, but its risking all of your chips on the assumption no one has a bigger hand (or that they don't like their drawing chances). Of the other 30%, you're risking all your chips. Unless you're in the BB, who gets the most information before acting preflop, I don't think that's a safe assumption.

 

[mischman]

Sorry, I really got to disagree with your all-in bet. Nobody has bet into the pot, and you're taking a huge risk with not enough information. The amound you win just doesn't justify the risk with JJ.
If someone had already raised, I think your play would be correct - either you'll buy the pot from them, or go heads up with an overall chance to win of better than 50-50 to win (There's only 3 hands that obviously beat you - higher pairs - the rest is either the classic coinflip against two overcards, or its a smaller pair that you have covered).

The all-in is overbetting an unchallenged pot. If you want to just take down the blinds, it will probably work 70%, but its risking all of your chips on the assumption no one has a bigger hand (or that they don't like their drawing chances). Of the other 30%, you're risking all your chips. Unless you're in the BB, who gets the most information before acting preflop, I don't think that's a safe assumption.

Its a $3.40 SNG, most of the players are donks. Its also a turbo so the blinds go up fast. I raise 3x, im pretty much pot commited and im sure i would of been put all in.

 

[shinedown.45]

I've seen to many posts on losses with JJ that I play it like I would play a small pocket pair, call or raise 3xBB but no all-in preflop, good win misch.

 

[mischman]

I won the SNG, chris was stalking me and he saw the guy. I started ~3k vs his ~10k. He was playing basically all in preflop or 5x BB preflop.
Ill load the HH's in a word doc and you can see them.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

lmao @ AQ limp-calling 3 pushes
lmao @ AT calling two pushes, brilliant

...and umm guys, it's 75/150, two people have limped which in a $3 basically means they have two cards of some description, misch has ~8.5BBs and JJ, it's a really trivially standard push. When you get shortstacked you have to risk all your chips in situations like this - what else can he do - fold? Call off a large portion of his stack not getting anything like the implied odds needed to hit a set? Minraise? Raise half his stack and basically pot commit himself anyway?

I'm really amazed people are questioning the push.

 

[zebranky]

<egg on my face>

Y'know, this is what I get for being the cash-game player on here - I keep forgetting to check where you are in terms of the "speed" and pressure from the levels.

I take it all back - it is a good raise, given the circumstance. And yes, you got pretty much the two callers you wanted (well, maybe one would have been better - but given that the AT was dominated by the AQ on one side, and your pair over his T's on the other, he's not a real threat).

One of these days I'll have to try to really play those SNGs.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Yeah, one of the many reasons SNGs are so different from cash games.

 

[mischman]

This is the player that i went heads up agaisnt with 3k vs 10k. S/he busted/donked out more than half the table

 

[Bombjack]

So you won I presume?

LOL at -87% ROI

 

[Marklar]

trust me, those $3 SNGs are no easy feat.

 

[Beriac]

Wow, she played 21 games at $3 a game and has a net total of -$61. That means she almost never places, ever.

 

[alan1983]

Would you call an all-in or many with jj?

 

[zebranky]

Would you call an all-in or many with jj?

Call an all in? Only if the player has a history of loose/weak all-ins.
Call many - absolutely. Treat it like a middle pair - you want to see the flop, but be willing to fold unless the board in underneath your pair, or you hit your set. If either of those things happen, bet big and take it down. Like any small/middle pair, traffic may be your friend - it puts a lot of money in the pot, and if you hit you're pretty good to be the best hand, regardless of the number of players.

 

[alan1983]

mmmm playing a hubbles freeroll on pstars now and 2 jj hands of mine have survived a preflop all in by another guy. And another raised pot (hit a set). My faith in JJs is restored!