I want to know what you think of this hand - would you push?

flint

flint

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Stacks: - flintti with 5180 - levararat with 7110 - Falcon11855 with 4520 - PXR_5 with 6510 - cornelis1982 with 1420 - R_Corleone with 4420 - MyTaHT with 11610 - mrpaco777 with 4090 - thepenguin9M with 16070

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Blinds: 100/200
Site: party poker
* - Dealt to flintti:
qs.gif
qc.gif

* - Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* - mrpaco777 calls [200]
* - thepenguin9M raises [4,200]
* - flintti is all-in [5,180]
* - thepenguin9M: u better b holding aa
**- 7 players fold.
* - thepenguin9M calls [980]
* - Total folds this street: 7
* - Potsize: 10560
Flop:
3s.gif
td.gif
qd.gif

* - Potsize: 10560
Turn:
7s.gif

* - Potsize: 10560
River:
jh.gif

* - thepenguin9M shows a straight Ten to Ace:
kd.gif
ah.gif

* - flintti shows three of a kind, Queens:
qs.gif
qc.gif

* - thepenguin9M wins 10,860 chips from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace.

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I want to know what you think about this hand. I want to see why or why not you would make such a move regardless of the outcome.

I would do the same in a heartbeat (it took me about two seconds to push), but why would you or why wouldn't you push here?
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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The blinds are only 100/200 I think a shove here is a bit excess. That being said I would probably shove here as played.
 
bob_tiger

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yes definitely push. you got in with the best, but what i dont understand is his donkey play. Who in the world raises 4200 with AK and not even suited, god i hate donks that over estimate AK. personally i think that was a horrible play by him even though he got lucky and i can see how he got his stack, LUCK.
 
flint

flint

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Funny thing is that this is not even a hand that I got most steamed up about, earlier on he went for a runner-runner straight even though I bet 2/3 of the pot on the flop and the turn. I smelled something fishy on the river with top pair and checked after him.

As to this play, I only seem him doing it with the likes of Jacks or AK. The information I got from him is that he would definately slow down with aces or kings. Regardless of the outocme I think I did the right move and I can't recall making any big mistakes, so it was just down to getting eaten by variance.
 
killerrat

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Easy fold. But if they would have limped it in then you stood a great chance to take this one on the turn. Sorry for your luck.
 
flint

flint

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Easy fold.

Please elaborate, too early or do you think there might have been a chance of him having a big hand or what?

I think if I can catch someone with their hand so far down the cookie jar, I have to pop it. In this situation I am a small favorite, but I also have the small possibilities that he would fold (Would have been better if I had more chips) or that he has the jacks.
 
NuRelic

NuRelic

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It looks like your only option is to push or fold with the PFR from thepenguin9M. Average size chip stack for the table is just under $6,300 and your sitting below that average with $5,180. After mrpaco777 calls for $200 and thepenguin9M raises with $4,200, the pot is $4,700 (almost the size of your stack). The raise is coming from the chip leader, so the odds of him playing big stack poker is relatively high with the size of his PFR so you should think your QQ are good and if not your not going to fold here anyway. Going out in a race situation against the chip leader with a chance to double up holding QQ - I'd go there.
 
NuRelic

NuRelic

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The only problem with the story and your particular situation is that Beevers had more information to work with. In your particular situation it was pretty much do-or-die and with so much money in the pot as result of Penguin's over the top 21xBB PFR, it was worth risking your tournament life with QQ because the pot was nearly equal to your stack. There was no way you could have easily put him on AK outside of assuming that the Chip Leader was over-playing his role as table captain. In the case with Beevers, the PFR wasn't as extreme and he had another options, i.e. to smooth call and fortunately for him there were two other callers which forced the over-aggressive player to react and expose more information about his hand. With that information he was able to deduce not only what he was up against but the odds of being out drawn since it there was possibly some merit to believing that one or or of the two callers might also hold an Ace or King.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a criticism on your play but the situations aren't as similar as you might think. Good read nonetheless.
 
momoney2

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The villain's overbet was screaming of, "I have a pretty strong hand, but I really don't want a call." Something like JJ's or a lower pair; AQ, AJ, maybe AK suited or unsuited.
If it were me, I would view this as only having one choice as well, and that is definitely ALL-IN.
In order to win a tourney, you have to get lucky a few times. And when I say lucky, I mean: your big starting hands have to hold up; you need to draw out; and hopefully when you take a bad beat, you have your opponent covered by a significant enough amount so that you are not crippled or eliminated.
Some would say, you also have to be able to make timely, big laydowns. This may be true, but I don't think this hand was one of those situations. This is more one of those hands where you needed the poker gods on your side.
IMHO, you made the right move and unfortunately got unlucky. :(
This is the reason we love to hate this game.
Better luck on the felt.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I shove this all day long.

AA and KK just don't make raises that stupidly huge (or at least, they don't in the hands of sane players) - it's much more likely to be a hand that you crush like JJ/TT/AQ.

You're a little short on chips compared to the table leaders (dunno what the other tables look like) and this is as good a chance as any to double up. Maybe if this were the on the bubble and there were a bunch of short stacks about to go out I could find a fold here... but I really wouldn't want to.
 
arkadiy

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Easy fold. But if they would have limped it in then you stood a great chance to take this one on the turn. Sorry for your luck.


Hmm, easy fold? You must have one crappy poker history. 2 hands are really beating you, QQ is most likely best hand. I'm not sure but I have been taught not to fold when I currently have the best hand.

Easy shove, if he didn't bet so much, then I would go ahead with a 5x BB raise / call. See a flop, determine from there.
 
B

Bentheman87

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KK there is no way to get away from it preflop. QQ is similar but I've folded them preflop before and sure enough one of the other guys had an overpair. JJ or 10 10 I think you could fold here topic creator but you made the right shove with QQ.
 
Yumboltking

Yumboltking

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Nothing wrong there. The only way I'm getting away from that is if I saw this guy as a rock or in the bubble situation. When a LAG big stack does it and has aces or kings on me, that's just a cooler. He wanted to play for stacks and at that momment only 2 hands beat you, only one that's almost a coin flip. All other possible hands are dogs. This has to be a freeroll because this guy can't have made money playing poker. I of course assume he plays like this always.
 
Fonzie

Fonzie

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Push all day in this situation.....btw, where can i find this guy.....21 x BB with Big Slick....smells like profit.

Sry about the bad beat though.
 
merenoise

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Yeah the push in is the right move for me.
 
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