Did I play this hand right?

[James Godfrey]

Did I play this hand incorrectly?

No Limit Hold 'Em Freezeout Tournament
$11.00 Buy-In
$10,000 Guaranteed

Blinds: $20/$40
Chips: $1310

Hold Cards: Qc-Qd

Two players limp in early position, another limp in late position, I am on small blind, I raise to $200 total.3 callers one of whom is the big blind.

Pot is now: $840

Flop: 4h-6c-10c

Im first to act, I bet $800, only Big Blind calls.

Turn: 10h

I go all in for $310, Big Blind calls, he turns over A-10 and wins, as the river came a blank.

Did I play this hand right???

James Godfrey

 

[Jillychemung]

Just shove the flop next time, preflop you could have bet more but I'll not quibble over T$60.

 

[aerolith]

i would have played my hand just about the same way and i think you played it good. wouldnt change anything

 

[motorbreath14]

I'd shove after the flop came 3 undercards, but I would not consider your play bad.

 

[PokerPete]

Just shove the flop next time,

^^ this... especially with two clubs out there and the fact that if anyone calls the 800 the pot will be >2400, a bet of 310 on the turn into 2400+ pot is sure to be an insta call for anyone who called the 800 on the flop...

preflop you could have bet more but I'll not quibble over T$60.

I don't get what you mean here Jilly... given hero's starting stack and position... with three limpers and the BB and the hero's SB of 20, the pot is 200 when the hero gets a chance to act.... the raise makes the pot 380 with 160 to call from the BB (~2.2:1 I think...)... and they're only going to get better with each caller... what would the appropriate pf bet size be here? I certainly don't want this played out 4 handed...

 

[Jillychemung]

My usual bet is 3.5xBB+1 per limper = 260, make the limpers pay to get in here.

pot before OP acts = 40+40+40+20+40=180
pot after 260 bet = 180 + 240 = 420
anyone calls it's 220 into a 420 pot, less than 2:1
if you get any callers it's now very 'natural' to shove any flop w/o A or K and any flop w/ Q based on pot to stack ratio.

 

[KardKlub]

You played right but as mentioned a little more pre flop would have reduced the field more. Only a massive bet would have made the big blind think twice about calling ($400)(that may seem alot but you need to bet a lot online as people like calling, and don't read the message of what would be a standard raise compared to the blinds) Q Q is a hand where you need to win it quick. So many things can go wrong with it in my experiance. Unfortunatley for you he hit top pair on the flop with top kicker. He was never going to throw this away as he didn't have you on a high pair.

This is the main problem about playing people who play there cards only, but to his credit he won!! but in the long run you will be the winner. Don't drop your head on this one.

Question is would you have bet the flop it an A or K had turned up?

 

[PokerPete]

My usual bet is 3.5xBB+1 per limper = 260, make the limpers pay to get in here.
.

ahhh.... I like!.... thx ... burning that one into brain... I always fumble around with what I should bet here...

pot before OP acts = 40+40+40+20+40=180

oops... case of "Monday math" on my part

pot after 260 bet = 180 + 240 = 420
anyone calls it's 220 into a 420 pot, less than 2:1

... with a bet of 3.5BB+ 1BB/limp ... or a raise to 260
... with a raise to 200, that's only 160 over the blind... so the call would be 160 into 360 or greater than 2:1, no? So that extra little 60 actually makes a big difference

if you get any callers it's now very 'natural' to shove any flop w/o A or K and any flop w/ Q based on pot to stack ratio.

yep... I have a feeling that if the villian with A 10 called 800, he's probably loose enough (or stacked enough) to call the flop AI of 1110 and wins anyway... but at least our hero gets all the chips in while ahead.

 

[Jillychemung]

Question is would you have bet the flop it an A or K had turned up?

Me, probably not since 1050 (assuming raise to 260) is enough to build back from at 20/40 & next 2 blind levels (at least).

 

[ph_il]

Raise it more preflop. I probably would've maid of a 4xBB + 1BB per limp raise preflop. Shove flop if you're going to bet.

Why are you betting 800 on flop and leaving 310 behind? Plan on folding if an A or K or club hits? I'm sure you were expecting to pick up the pot with the pot-sized bet, but there is no sense in leaving any money behind if you're going to bet more than 50% of your stack. All your doing is giving your opponent odds to call on your turn shove if they call the flop bet.

840 flop pot + 800 bet on flop + 800 call = 2440 pot.
2440 turn pot + 310 shove = 2750

Villain has to call 310 to win a pot of 2750...he is getting about 9:1 on his money.

Where as if you shoved flop:

840 + 1110 = 1950.

Villain has to call 1110 to win a pot of 1950....getting ~1.8:1 on his money.

With TPTK, he is probably calling your flop shove anyway. You just unlucky. Only big error I see is betting 70% of stack on flop and leaving 30% behind. If you're going to bet that much, just shove.

 

[James Godfrey]

Thanks for the advice everyone, main mistakes, raise more pre-flop, and all-in on the flop... other than that fine...

 

[sw7104]

File this one under "Donkeys Have to Eat too", but I disagree w/ all-in on flop. You **want** a caller, so yes, a sizable raise or reraise, and you want to make drawing hands overpay, but don't drive out the chips. Plus, you don't want to overpay if Donk takes you all-in with AA/KK (were you certain at that point that Donk did not hold AA/KK?) -- you want to have some chips left to keep playing if you have to lay it down. I've seen many QQs lose, mostly ones that I was holding and overplayed.

 

[WurlyQ]

File this one under "Donkeys Have to Eat too", but I disagree w/ all-in on flop. You **want** a caller, so yes, a sizable raise or reraise, and you want to make drawing hands overpay, but don't drive out the chips. Plus, you don't want to overpay if Donk takes you all-in with AA/KK (were you certain at that point that Donk did not hold AA/KK?) -- you want to have some chips left to keep playing if you have to lay it down. I've seen many QQs lose, mostly ones that I was holding and overplayed.

Betting out something like 600 is a high risk, high reward play. Probably gets you more callers but raises your chance of going bust.

If someone had AA or KK, they would have reraised preflop (though I don't know how you can lay down QQ unless you have a ridiculous read on your opponent). Post flop there is 0 chance of getting away from this hand. You have to raise and then you get ridiculous pot odds.

 

[baudib1]

I think it was played reasonably well. I don't mind shoving the flop either, because basically any cbet leaves you committed, the board is drawy and worse hands can certainly call. I mean, are you folding if an overcard hits the turn?

Just unlucky, imo.

 

[FereZ]

Wow, what a horrible Bad Beat! You was totally unlucky...
In my opinion, you did right, Oww...

 

[James Godfrey]

Took, your advice and get shafted again, starting not to like bodog lol. Take a look at this and tell me your thoughts

$5.50 NLHE 10 Player SnG
Blinds: $15/$30
Stack: $1160
Hole Cards: Kh-Kc

2 Limpers before me, I raise to $250

1 caller, which is one of the limpers, pot is $575.00

Flop: 9h-4d-6c

Opponent checks, I bet $400.00, leaving $510.00

Opponent raises to $800, I go all in he calls, he has A-9 and hit full house by river, should I have folded on the flop after the check raise???

Thanks

James Godfrey

 

[toybits]

nope, you only have 500 to call a 1300 pot, you're getting good odds. also, why ask if you should have folded after his flop check-raise - you were ahead!

 

[sw7104]

Another submission for the "Donkeys Have to Eat Too" file. You're pot committed, ahead of all but 7 hands, and roughly an 85%/15% favorite against anything else. Bad luck is bad luck. Write it off and remember when you hit an ace on the river that saved your stack....

 

[Steveg1976]

Took, your advice and get shafted again, starting not to like bodog lol. Take a look at this and tell me your thoughts

$5.50 NLHE 10 Player SnG
Blinds: $15/$30
Stack: $1160
Hole Cards: Kh-Kc

2 Limpers before me, I raise to $250

1 caller, which is one of the limpers, pot is $575.00

Flop: 9h-4d-6c

Opponent checks, I bet $400.00, leaving $510.00

Opponent raises to $800, I go all in he calls, he has A-9 and hit full house by river, should I have folded on the flop after the check raise???

Thanks

James Godfrey

Do not be RESULTS oriented

I saw someone else post it but I can't remember who:

Your tournament can only end one of 3 ways., you either get your money in good and get sucked out on, you get in bad and loose and or you win the tournament. As you get better the first will happen a lot more often than the other two.

 

[James Godfrey]

Took, your advice and get shafted again, starting not to like bodog lol. Take a look at this and tell me your thoughts

$5.50 NLHE 10 Player SnG
Blinds: $15/$30
Stack: $1160
Hole Cards: Kh-Kc

2 Limpers before me, I raise to $250

1 caller, which is one of the limpers, pot is $575.00

Flop: 9h-4d-6c

Opponent checks, I bet $400.00, leaving $510.00

Opponent raises to $800, I go all in he calls, he has A-9 and hit full house by river, should I have folded on the flop after the check raise???

Thanks

James Godfrey

Sorry guys, typed the flop wrong, it was 9h-4d-9c, sorry about that...

 

[cardsDontMatter]

One thing I noticed with both hands is that the blind levels are early and when you have multiple limpers, you have to keep a few things in mind.

You're getting unlucky.

It's small stakes and it's the most frustrating poker you will play. Both of your raises are correct; but you're doing one thing: building big pots, which necessarily isn't a bad thing with the hands, but pot control is as equally important in poker.

The first hand is a tournament and a chip up early on always helps... but with 3 limpers, they will not fold. See a flop with Queens and play some poker.

One of the great teachings of Gavin Smith is enter small stakes tournaments and never raise preflop. This will teach you how to read the texture of flops and recognize betting. You don't risk much money and at the same time, you don't risk a lot of chips. Even though the field is weaker, you will learn tons.

Hyper aggression to weak players is viewed as pot stealing... and they will call you down as they did here.

The 2nd hand, a SNG, is again, unlucky. I would be thrilled to get my chips in there. SNGs have one goal. Make the money. The blinds are so low here. Keeping pots small is hard at these levels, but if the hyper aggression isn't working, try something else with your preflop betting and post flop information betting.

 

[sw7104]

Your correction changes everything.... with a paired flop you are now in a classic WA/WB (Way Ahead or Way Behind). At this point, it's all about your read of villain. Knowing nothing of villain, then my generic approach in this situation would be to check down all the way and prepare to abandon ship when you are offered incorrect odds.

 

[LP666]

yes you could have bet a little more preflop or shoved when the flop put three undercards... those are the things i could change

other than that i like the way you played and i didn't get him calling with A10 with 3 limpers and a raise preflop... at that point if you call, you have that you will need to suckout in order to win

 

[WurlyQ]

I'm not sure I agree with some of these comments.

It's hard for me to tell how loose your table is, but if they are calling 8x bb, you do not put them on a 9. A9 and 44 are the two hands you are afraid of and neither should be calling an 8x bb raise. Your raise preflop is a little too large if anything. Checking is not an option here. You are good a majority of the time here and should just be value betting.

Just to analyze the post flop play a little more, let's say your opponent has AK or AQ (much more reasonable hands to call with). Your 400 bet may induce them to call thinking they have something like 2.25:1 odds against your medium pair (which is incorrect in this situation because you hold kings) or they might even think you just c-bet and are actually good (depends on your table image) but it runs the small risk of an A hitting on the turn or river. On the contrary, if you just shove the flop, you are unlikely to get calls unless they are complete donkeys.

All in all, I think this hand was played just fine and got unlucky.

 

[Cobryn]

On the contrary, if you just shove the flop, you are unlikely to get calls unless they are complete donkeys.

By playing the hands they did and calling the raises preflop, I believe they do qualify as complete donkeys.

Better to get your money in good and not be too fancy.

I like getting it in on the flop especially in the first hand. Not that I think it would have changed the outcome of the hand in any way.