DID I PLAY THIS HAND INCORRECT?

[XPOKERCHIC]

What could I have done different here other than fold preflop. LOL.

PokerStars Game #18730896009: Tournament #94923394, $0.25+$0.00 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/07/10 - 22:19:38 (ET)
Table '94923394 303' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: charsboykin (2120 in chips)
Seat 2: pitaoufmg (1260 in chips)
Seat 3: EGYPT EYE (3880 in chips)
Seat 4: jossachuk (1690 in chips)
Seat 5: bryan1991 (2130 in chips)
Seat 6: hofsdog (1405 in chips)
Seat 7: swombat (1275 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: EatMyDogNutz (3725 in chips)
Seat 9: XPOKERCHIC (1655 in chips)
EGYPT EYE: posts small blind 15
jossachuk: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XPOKERCHIC

bryan1991 has timed out while being disconnected
bryan1991: folds
bryan1991 is sitting out
hofsdog: folds
swombat: folds
EatMyDogNutz: calls 30
XPOKERCHIC: raises 150 to 180
bryan1991 is disconnected
bryan1991 is connected
charsboykin: folds
bryan1991 has returned
pitaoufmg: folds
EGYPT EYE: folds
jossachuk: calls 150
EatMyDogNutz: folds
*** FLOP ***

jossachuk: checks
EatMyDogNutz said, "uh oh someones on tilt watch out"
XPOKERCHIC: bets 420
jossachuk: calls 420
*** TURN ***

jossachuk: checks
XPOKERCHIC: bets 1055 and is all-in
jossachuk: calls 1055
*** RIVER ***

*** SHOW DOWN ***
jossachuk: shows

(a full house, Fours full of Nines)
XPOKERCHIC: shows

(two pair, Aces and Nines)
jossachuk collected 3355 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3355 | Rake 0
Board

Seat 1: charsboykin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: pitaoufmg (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: EGYPT EYE (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: jossachuk (big blind) showed

and won (3355) with a full house, Fours full of Nines
Seat 5: bryan1991 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: hofsdog folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: swombat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: EatMyDogNutz folded before Flop
Seat 9: XPOKERCHIC showed

and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines

 

[ksuhart]

When he called the pot bet on the flop you had to know he had AT LEAST a 9 in his hand. Doubtful he's smooth calling w/ an overpair to that board preflop. As soon as the turn brings another 9 you should have slowed down.

Certainly can't fault you for not putting him on a 4, but, imho, the way you bet, it appears you were to focused on your hand and not at all concerned about his...

 

[nevadanick]

Rockets are just one pair, no matter how pretty they look. Best hand, of course, until the flop.

I think your all-in bet on the turn facing a paired board was the undoing. ksuhart is right, imo, playing only your cards, not considering villain's possible range. Once he called your 420 bet, I would have considered the possibility that he hit 'some' piece of the flop, but could also have been calling with JJ, QQ or KK. Too early in levels to tell if you were still ahead, or not.

No matter how you played it, seems to me there was no way out short of a check-fold on the turn. I think most would advise against that move. That said, looks like one of those hands, at level II 25c MTT, that were destined to smoke those rockets.

Knowing in hind-sight what villain was holding after the flop, there was no way he was going anywhere, no matter what you did or how you bet.

Agg players say that hands like this are why they go all-in preflop with rockets and settle for the blinds. In a Stars dimer or 25c MTT, no way to know if villain would have called an all-in pf. If he did, you still lose.

Better luck next time.

 

[dufferdevon]

Sometimes you have to lay down AA

There is a great video on youtube of Johnny Chan on Poker after dark laying his AA down to a board of 6-J-J - both the blinds called his raise and they just checked it to the river and Chan layed down AA to a bet from the BB, which happended to have 6-6 (flopped a boat).

YouTube - Monster Laydown from Johnny Chan !

There's the link.

 

[Shakes]

When he called the pot bet on the flop you had to know he had AT LEAST a 9 in his hand. Doubtful he's smooth calling w/ an overpair to that board preflop. As soon as the turn brings another 9 you should have slowed down.

Certainly can't fault you for not putting him on a 4, but, imho, the way you bet, it appears you were to focused on your hand and not at all concerned about his...

Agreed with this. You were fine (although I bit too agressive for my taste with the bets) up until the turn. With two 4's and 9's you needed to slow down and check because of his call on the flop. Depending on his bet amount then I would even fold here. Athough the oher guy was an idiot for trying to defend his blind like that with J4 sooted it would have been the turn to determine officially where you stand with the check.

 

[Steveg1976]

without reads my 'standard play' in this spot is to bet half the pot, it does two things, gives incorrect odds for chaising flushes and straights and it looks like a c-bet. I will make this bet 75-85% of the time when I am the preflop aggressor hit or miss. Again this is all without reads. in this case when I am called on my flop bet I have gotten chips in have made drawers pay the incorrect price. In this hand and any hand a call doesn't mean much but when he checks the turn, check it as well, I think the only hand that calls a shove on a double paired board is a hand that beats us. by making a half pot bet on the flop it is easier to let the hand go if necessary. other than this hand looks like a classic example of some one who 'you' who played thier over pair like the absolute nuts and didn't pay as careful attention and you should have to what the villian was doing and why.

 

[t1riel]

jossachuk is a donk who got lucky on the flop. You played it fine although I probably would have checked on the turn.

 

[kaz15]

you used the power of position to represent strength. I don't see anything wrong.

 

[tpb221]

without reads my 'standard play' in this spot is to bet half the pot, it does two things, gives incorrect odds for chaising flushes and straights and it looks like a c-bet.

Sorry Steve, but this is a .25 tourney and our "winner" here wouldn't know correct odds from incorrect odds and a c-bet if it bit him in the a**. As soon as the 9 fell on the turn time to check\fold.

 

[sydneyslim]

ya you have to slow down with them friggin bullets, they're killers

 

[ysmisc]

*** FLOP ***

jossachuk: checks
EatMyDogNutz said, "uh oh someones on tilt watch out"
XPOKERCHIC: bets 420
jossachuk: calls 420
...

I would have both raised more at pre flop and paused after the 420 call (which indicated the chance of either a 4 or 9..) but in that case if jossachuk would have gone all in.... I am not sure what I would have done - Would have based it on PRIOR hands played by jossachuk

 

[F Paulsson]

Sorry Steve, but this is a .25 tourney and our "winner" here wouldn't know correct odds from incorrect odds and a c-bet if it bit him in the a**.

This doesn't matter. On a philosophical level, it's great to make the right decisions for the right reason. In reality, however, it doesn't matter if you know why you do the things you do. It only matters if they're correct.

There's an astonishing amount of really bad advice in this thread. Folding anywhere is out of the question, and getting it all-in is very okay. At this level, there's quite a few people who will look you up with an ace-kicker hoping for a split, for crying out loud. And the idea that he has to "have something" to call the flop makes me wonder if you're new to this game. People so often call the flop on no other merit than being curious about the turn card.

It's a trivial shove with an unfortunate outcome. The worst parts about this hand is the fact that you posted it with all caps in the title and that you included the results.

 

[ABorges]

I would have both raised more at pre flop and paused after the 420 call (which indicated the chance of either a 4 or 9..) but in that case if jossachuk would have gone all in.... I am not sure what I would have done - Would have based it on PRIOR hands played by jossachuk

He already raised more preflop than the usual 3x + 1x for each limper. Usually you should raise to 120, but I understand if you raised 2 more BBs if you knew someone was calling any raise. More than 180 is too much. Again, if you didn't have reads on the table raise less preflop. His cold call indicates to me something like suited connectors or small pair, though it's clearly way off. Paying attention to what he's been doing helps a lot here.

The flop is pretty unlikely to have hit him, unless he has something like T9s in his hand. There are absolutely no draws on the table. This is a classic way ahead / way behind situation, meaning either you're drawing to the other two aces in case he has the 4 or he is drawing to his own fullhouse to beat your aces. I usually check behind on the flop for a number of reasons:

1. Pot control; if he starts giving you crazy action after the turn you may be able to at least not go bust, or maybe even fold if you have some sort of read on the player.

2. Give a free card; you're either pretty much drawing dead or he is. You're not going to get many more chips in the pot as a favorite, he'll just fold his unpaired hands and maybe call a street with a 9 or a small pocket pair. Giving a free card might help him pair up or even allow him to bluff at you on the turn allowing you to extract some value from him, which is what you really want. He'll still give you action with the 9 on the turn, so it's not like you really lost a value bet on the flop.

3. Deception; no one in this tourney will expect you to check behind here with aces because given the buy in 99.9% of the players is incapable of checking the flop with AA. When you check here he never thinks you have aces and your hand is perfectly camouflaged to milk his chips on later streets.

You elect to bet. It's acceptable, not a bad play, though I think checking is the best line. However you bet too much. A ~pot sized bet is going to do the exact same a 1/2 pot bet or 2/3 pot bet will. There are no draws you need to worry about and when he calls or raises it's not unlikely you're beat, so you just gave him more chips by betting the pot. He calls, which should really make alarms sound in your hand telling you to proceed with LOTS of caution.

The turn is completely awful. Only think you beat now is a smaller pocket pair. His call earlier seems so strong you really should just give up. Betting here is very bad, he has a fullhouse there like 90% of the time and you're drawing to your other two aces. Check turn and hope he checks the river so you can check behind. If he bets just fold, you can't beat anything.

Hope this helps somehow...