Did I make a good move

[Lespaul_Lover]

Hello everyone, I am new to this whole poker thing as I started studying poker and really reading about it and so on a few months ago. I do not play for cash because my intent is to just get my skills sharpened. Anyways, here is a hand that I played just a few minutes ago, and looking back on it I am wondering if I was gambling to hard.. Any advice/opinions? Thanks a ton!!

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/132146606/straight-ten-to-ace

 

[SnowedIn]

what are you trying to achieve by betting on the flop?
Bet much bigger pre, should be more like 200/250.
Call on turn is fine
Why aren't you raising the river?

 

[Lespaul_Lover]

Reply to SnowedIn

Yes, betting higher on the pre flop is a great idea.
I have no idea why I betted on the flop lol maybe to mask what I had?
What is your reasoning as to why calling on the river is ok? Doesn't that go against my pot odds?
Because I had an adrenaline rush probably haha I'm kinda fishy

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

every tiny bet you made only serves to build a pot as nobody will fold if they have any kind of hand or any kind of draw given those odds. So you should only make those kinds of tiny bets when you WANT people to stick around. (i.e. a monster that is hard to draw out on).

Then, when you finally have a monster (the stone cold nuts) you just flatted. that is backwards my friend. You have to raise the river hoping that a random Q will look you up.

So, my advice is as follows:

Preflop: either check your option and hope to flop a well disguised monster, or take the lead in the hand with what is likely to be the best hand and raise much bigger. The rule of thumb is about a pot sized raise or 3xbb + 1bb for each limper. A pot sized raise would be 200. 3bb+1bb+1bb+1bb = 6bb. so you should have raised to between 200-300 preflop if you wanted to isolate.

Flop: OK, you're OOP in a multiway pot when you've whiffed probably just check fold. But since you had the lead if you want to Cbet it has to be for a lot more...like half pot at least.

Turn: you just have a draw. with only 1 card to come you're not getting the odds to call (even in a mutliway pot). fold the turn.

River: As played, the beautiful miracle card comes giving you the nuts. pray that somebody has a queen and raise. I don't care if you min raise or jam. jamming looks weaker but any raise is better than flatting with the nuts in a mutliway pot.

 

[Ambur]

Turn: you just have a draw. with only 1 card to come you're not getting the odds to call (even in a mutliway pot). fold the turn.

Not sure why you suggest him to fold turn, since hero basically has implied odds+hero has nut draw! and board is not even suited!

Hero got 2*8 (outs)=~16% on turn to improve

implied odds: ~15%, assume that mp come along on turn

I would snap call turn definetly and look what happens! -actually i would never fold turn!

 

[PokerFunKid]

Raise bigger preflop. I would raise to 250/300. Probably 300.
The flop is bad for you. Especialy 4-way. I'm check folding on this flop 4-way. The only hands continue on the flop have you beat or draws like TQ / T8 which will continue anyways and are flipping on the flop.

A tip. Look to betsizing. You should never bet so small preflop and on the flop. You aren't representing anything on the flop and if you do have something you're missing out on value. Do you really want to go 4-way with AQ there? with that small raise all the limpers will call 100% of the time.

Here's a good video about betsizing. It is very important to be succesfull in poker to understand betsizing.

Good luck!

 

[milesaway0]

agreed alwyas be betting like everything and calling everything preflop imo play crazy hands and play crazy to win a lot and avoid rake

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Not sure why you suggest him to fold turn, since hero basically has implied odds+hero has nut draw! and board is not even suited!

Hero got 2*8 (outs)=~16% on turn to improve

implied odds: ~15%, assume that mp come along on turn

I would snap call turn definetly and look what happens! -actually i would never fold turn!

you're right calling on the turn isn't bad. I don't really love it either because hero might get into trouble when he hits 1 pair. But, the pot contains 1,350 and it costs just 300 to call so basically he is getting 4.5:1 odds on his money and he has 8 outs twice to the nuts so he is almost getting the direct odds to call. I think using implied odds to justify a call is dubious in a hand like this, since we are giving advice to a player who flatted with the nuts in position on the river. translation: implied odds unlikely to be realized even when he binks the river.

But I see your point, I think as played the turn call is fine and then he needs to raise the river. I don't care if he jams or min raises (I like the jam).

 

[CSINSC]

I would definitely NEVER just min-raise to 100 on the flop. Do you really expect anybody to fold to just a min-raise when they already put in 1 bet. Everyone almost assuredly will call. So now you are facing 3 opponents with aq offsuit & that is not great. I understand maybe betting the flop if U had raised bigger on flop to maybe 175 to 300 range, but since U only min-raised preflop I would CHECK the flop. Your turn play is ok. Your river play is quite questionable. Why are you ONLY checking with the nuts. If the blind has a good enough hand to bet into 3 people then definitely he has a good enough hand to call a raise with . I would at a minimum raise his river bet by 2.5x his bet. There is absolutely NO reason to just call on river. It is great that you are asking the advice of others to get better.

 

[Ambur]

you're right calling on the turn isn't bad. I don't really love it either because hero might get into trouble when he hits 1 pair. But, the pot contains 1,350 and it costs just 300 to call so basically he is getting 4.5:1 odds on his money and he has 8 outs twice to the nuts so he is almost getting the direct odds to call. I think using implied odds to justify a call is dubious in a hand like this, since we are giving advice to a player who flatted with the nuts in position on the river. translation: implied odds unlikely to be realized even when he binks the river.

But I see your point, I think as played the turn call is fine and then he needs to raise the river. I don't care if he jams or min raises (I like the jam).

Nah, without implied odds we can not justifie that call actually - this would be slightly negative expectation overall! if we hit 1 pair on river, we should fold when things getting hot anyway - since 1 pair hands with decent kicker on river is negative expectation overall 3+ multiway drawy board as it is! imo - This would be horrendeous that someone has not at least 2 pairs on river or better (even on turn, high possibility)!

If we do not take implied odds into calc we get pot odds [1/(1650/300)]*100~18,2% and our odds to improve are (8*2)-1=~15%. So this would be negative expectation overall!

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Nah, without implied odds we can not justifie that call actually - this would be slightly negative expectation overall! if we hit 1 pair on river, we should fold when things getting hot anyway - since 1 pair hands with decent kicker on river is negative expectation overall 3+ multiway drawy board as it is! imo - This would be horrendeous that someone has not at least 2 pairs on river or better (even on turn, high possibility)!

If we do not take implied odds into calc we get pot odds [1/(1650/300)]*100~18,2% and our odds to improve are (8*2)-1=~15%. So this would be negative expectation overall!

Right, which is why my original advice was to just fold the turn. But calling isn't really bad. It's slightly -EV if you can't count on implied odds. But I think when you balance the low chance of this hero realizing his implied odds plus the fact that he might get into trouble when he rivers 1 pair .. The scales tip toward a fold for a learning player and an easy call for an experienced player who can fully extract when he's ahead and lose the minimum when he's in 2nd place.

Learning players, however would be better served by staying out of tricky spots on dangerous boards with draws that rely on implied odds to be profitable.

 

[Ambur]

Experienced players and non experienced players (sorry i do not know how to cross line between this). And i am not sure that non experienced players should avoid these situations?

Original thread poster: thanks for posting anyway and i hope you could learn something on this! But note that the hand begins on preflop. You should look posts above and ask question about preflop+postflop. And if you do not have question, meh i do not know..

Thanks for your feedback missjacky!

 

[Ambur]

To original poster!

Bet much bigger pre, should be more like 200/250.

Preflop: either check your option and hope to flop a well disguised monster, or take the lead in the hand with what is likely to be the best hand and raise much bigger. The rule of thumb is about a pot sized raise or 3xbb + 1bb for each limper. A pot sized raise would be 200. 3bb+1bb+1bb+1bb = 6bb. so you should have raised to between 200-300 preflop if you wanted to isolate.

Raise bigger preflop. I would raise to 250/300. Probably 300.

Original poster:

Good hand analyse begins on preflop, not flop, turn, or river! - keep this on mind!

 

[radman]

every tiny bet you made only serves to build a pot as nobody will fold if they have any kind of hand or any kind of draw given those odds. So you should only make those kinds of tiny bets when you WANT people to stick around. (i.e. a monster that is hard to draw out on).

Then, when you finally have a monster (the stone cold nuts) you just flatted. that is backwards my friend. You have to raise the river hoping that a random Q will look you up.

So, my advice is as follows:

Preflop: either check your option and hope to flop a well disguised monster, or take the lead in the hand with what is likely to be the best hand and raise much bigger. The rule of thumb is about a pot sized raise or 3xbb + 1bb for each limper. A pot sized raise would be 200. 3bb+1bb+1bb+1bb = 6bb. so you should have raised to between 200-300 preflop if you wanted to isolate.

Flop: OK, you're OOP in a multiway pot when you've whiffed probably just check fold. But since you had the lead if you want to Cbet it has to be for a lot more...like half pot at least.

Turn: you just have a draw. with only 1 card to come you're not getting the odds to call (even in a mutliway pot). fold the turn.

River: As played, the beautiful miracle card comes giving you the nuts. pray that somebody has a queen and raise. I don't care if you min raise or jam. jamming looks weaker but any raise is better than flatting with the nuts in a mutliway pot.

I agree with everything said here. But I question folding on the turn. Normally yes 1 card - 1 out = fold But the turn gave him more outs to win.
Its not a big difference but heads up - I'd call.

The river should have been a jam. Holding the nuts boom.
The only reason not to jam and to make a small bet into it - would be to intice a raise or allin. But only if you thought the push would make him fold without calling. The river should be decided on a hand by hand, being the goal to extract as many chips out of your opponent as possible at that point.

 

[11012015]

"In freerolls other rules".