did i do the right thing?

G

gis1239

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Gis1239=hero
eisbär17=villan

pokerstars Game #18246283438: Tournament #92664711, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/06/19 - 17:00:48 (ET)
Table '92664711 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: LouisTully78 (1470 in chips)
Seat 2: tchoupi.18 (1560 in chips)
Seat 3: gttf (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: Jack 3959 (1080 in chips)
Seat 6: eisbär17 (1170 in chips)
Seat 7: catykat (2830 in chips)
Seat 8: gis1239 (2690 in chips)
Seat 9: bonnerup (1200 in chips)
Jack 3959: posts small blind 15
eisbär17: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gis1239 [Kh Ac]
catykat: folds
gis1239: raises 90 to 120
bonnerup: folds
LouisTully78: folds
tchoupi.18: folds
gttf: folds
Jack 3959: folds
eisbär17: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [7h Jc Kd]
eisbär17: checks
gis1239: bets 180
eisbär17: calls 180
*** TURN *** [7h Jc Kd] [9h]
eisbär17: checks
gis1239: bets 330
eisbär17: calls 330
*** RIVER *** [7h Jc Kd 9h] [9d]
eisbär17: checks
gis1239: bets 510
eisbär17: raises 30 to 540 and is all-in
gis1239: calls 30


i think i might have played this right but not sure my read was that he was weak cause of calls
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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check/call, check/call is usually either a draw or a monster; reads would be helpful if you have any. You showed strength the whole way and he called and is again checking on the River? You will only be called in this spot by a hand that beats your top pair, check on the river.

What did he have a fullhouse?
 
G

gis1239

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he had q9 of suit a draw was proberly what i put him on yes so decided to take the risk
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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You might want to wait a little longer to post results, even though I asked. so that others can respond who are way better than I am.

From his perspective he had a gutshot straight draw (4 10's to make a straight), which you priced him out of on the flop. On the turn he got an additional 5 outs with 3 Q's and 2 9's to beat top pair, which he didn't know at the time but his call on the turn wasn't terrible if he knew you would over play top pair, and his chasing was rewarded on the river.

did you put him on any kind of starting hand range to make sense of is plays?

Really the only mistake I see was raising on the River, that was a hopeless bet, he only calls if you are beat in this spot I think.
 
KyleJRM

KyleJRM

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A very good player once taught me that with TPTK on the flop, your goal should be to bet two of the next three rounds. Betting all three is just begging to end up all-in, and you don't want that.
 
G

gis1239

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no i had a hard time putting him on a range played less than 20 hands at that time of the stt

but thank you for all the good responses will remeber not to make that last river bet another time
 
Steveg1976

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no i had a hard time putting him on a range played less than 20 hands at that time of the stt

but thank you for all the good responses will remeber not to make that last river bet another time

Betting on the River is fine, just not in this specific case. I don't want you to think never bet on the river. There is a time and a place for everything. In this case top pair is not a good time to bet when it has been checked to you.
 
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feitr

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You guys cannot be serious. It is a $1 SnG, villain is a TOTAL FREAKING FISH that had to hit runner runner or a gutshot to win the hand. Villain is just as likely to have some shit like JT and be unable to fold it.

Normally you check behind here on the river, because you can't really get called by anything worse. But when you are playing vs a complete calling station at micro stakes there is nothing wrong with value betting 3 streets with TPTK since a villain like this would probably have a hand like KQ/QJ and just refuse to lay it down. It is a weird hand because you can't put villain on a 9 in a million years.
 
KyleJRM

KyleJRM

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You guys cannot be serious. It is a $1 SnG, villain is a TOTAL FREAKING FISH that had to hit runner runner or a gutshot to win the hand. Villain is just as likely to have some shit like JT and be unable to fold it.

Normally you check behind here on the river, because you can't really get called by anything worse. But when you are playing vs a complete calling station at micro stakes there is nothing wrong with value betting 3 streets with TPTK since a villain like this would probably have a hand like KQ/QJ and just refuse to lay it down. It is a weird hand because you can't put villain on a 9 in a million years.

Show me a player who makes a career out of getting all-in with TPTK, and I'll show you a losing player.
 
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feitr

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just lol what a stupid comment. Show me a player who makes a career out of playing $1.25 SnGs and i'll oh wait...

Villain is a fish, as are the vast majority of players @ $1 SnGs i would assume (since the players @ Stars are still horrible @ 5/10$ SnGs etc). vs a calling station, there is nothing wrong with playing for stacks with TPTK if they are willing to call off their stack. Villain called flop with a gutshot, then called over 1/3 of their stack off on a gutshot + 2nd bottom pair. No pot odds and no implied odds at all. And therefore, it is VERY VERY reasonable to assume that villain's range here includes hands like Kx, Jx etc.

Poker is about playing the player not saying "A very good player once taught me that with TPTK on the flop, your goal should be to bet two of the next three rounds. Betting all three is just begging to end up all-in, and you don't want that." and, therefore, every single time i have TPTK i must do as this player told me. Vs some players, i would check behind on the turn then check call the river. vs some players, i would value bet every street, and vs some players i would gladly get my stack in at any stage of this hand. Fact is, at donk stakes for SnGs TPTK is good alot of the time. You don't seem to grasp just how shitty the villain played this hand and how incredibly lucky they got. Honestly, how the hell can you put villain on a 9 here? If you believe you are ahead on the flop (and why wouldn't you), unless villain is holding QT, which is very remote, the running 9s are dead cards.

So sure, vs a competent opponent checking behind on the river is standard. But vs a fishy calling station there is nothing wrong with value betting all streets...since ofc that is how you make money from those types of players.
 
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chainfire98

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feitr, i agree with you. Play the player. If he is a fish calling station, thread author made the right play.
 
ukaliks

ukaliks

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A very good player once taught me that with TPTK on the flop, your goal should be to bet two of the next three rounds. Betting all three is just begging to end up all-in, and you don't want that.


What does TPTK mean?
 
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