How I play low pocket pair

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shwingzilla

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There are only a few situations in which I find low pocket pairs playable, here's one of them. I mean the situation doesn't have to be quite this ideal, but it's fun to share. My only mistake was re-raising on the turn; he didn't fold but he should have; I really should have just called and was saved by his bad call.

Dealer: Starting a new hand (#641853605)
Dealer: Starting a new hand (#641853605)
Dealer: bluenose75 posts Small Blind 5
Dealer: shwingzilla posts Big Blind 10
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards 3♣3♦
Dealer: TNRounder folds
Dealer: bkistheone raises 40
Dealer: tunkpirate7 folds
Dealer: CapoChoza folds
Dealer: scootmon folds
Dealer: Golden8Ball calls 40
Dealer: nomissims calls 40
Dealer: goldhunter folds
Dealer: bluenose75 folds
Dealer: Shwingzilla calls 30
Dealer: Dealing Flop
J♦9♣ 3♠
Dealer: shwingzilla checks
Dealer: bkistheone checks
Dealer: Golden8Ball bets 50
Dealer: nomissims folds
Dealer: shwingzilla calls 50
Dealer: bkistheone folds
Dealer: Dealing Turn
J♦9♣3♠9♥
Dealer: shwingzilla checks
Dealer: Golden8Ball bets 50
Dealer: shwingzilla raises 100
Dealer: Golden8Ball calls 50
Dealer: Dealing River
J♦9♣3♠9♥[Th]
Dealer: shwingzilla bets 290
Dealer: Golden8Ball calls 290
Dealer: shwingzilla shows Full house
3♣3♦
Dealer: Golden8Ball shows Two Pair
6♥6♠
Dealer: Winner is shwingzilla with Full house (1045)

Sorry about that crappy post, it pasted weird. I have no idea why it doesn't like the ten of hearts
 
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robwhufc

robwhufc

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Er yeah, pocket pairs are playable when you flop 3 of a kind. We haven't got yours and opponents stack sizes, but i'd have played this much harder - bet post flop (were you slow playing, why did you check and call???), and bet harder when the 2nd 9 flopped. Why do you think raising the turn was a bad move (the pitiful amount of the raise was bad - of course he'll call, he can always hit one of the remaining 6's cant he)?
 
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shwingzilla

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robwhufc said:
Er yeah, pocket pairs are playable when you flop 3 of a kind. We haven't got yours and opponents stack sizes, but i'd have played this much harder - bet post flop (were you slow playing, why did you check and call???), and bet harder when the 2nd 9 flopped. Why do you think raising the turn was a bad move (the pitiful amount of the raise was bad - of course he'll call, he can always hit one of the remaining 6's cant he)?

Slowplaying, the flop was completely unscary, and I figured if I checked the flop he would bet into me the whole way, which he did. If I bet into him there was a very good chance he would fold. That is to say, if I bet half pot size or bigger, he'd probably fold, if I miniraised it he would just call.

50 to win 360 = 1/7 pot odds. Chances to catch a six: 1/23. Doesn't look callable to me. At least when I play (5 dollar sit'ngos), no one re-raises on a bluff. He had to figure he needed a six to win. As for the stack sizes, I don't know exactly what they were since noble doesn't record that in hand histories, but I think they were around 1k.

And my point was that I thought my low pocket pair was good enough to limp in with because there were a lot of people ahead of me, and a raise so I knew I could get maximum value for the set (not to mention big blind discount). Not that I knew I would flop a set with my sixth sense and thus jumped in.
 
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robwhufc

robwhufc

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shwingzilla said:
Slowplaying, the flop was completely unscary, and I figured if I checked the flop he would bet into me the whole way, which he did. If I bet into him there was a very good chance he would fold. That is to say, if I bet half pot size or bigger, he'd probably fold, if I miniraised it he would just call.
Fair enough - there's a fine art to extracting the max out of people in situations like this (I think this is what seperates losing NL players from winning ones). A lot of people here will say "push all-in" which I think is a mistake. Obviously i've got the benefit of hindsight seeing what he's got, but personally, i'd have probably bet twice what you did (maybe won more, maybe won less?!?). And re the pot odds, i'd call 50. I have got 2 pair after all, and you could easily be pushing with AQ or similar. And if i did fluke one of the 6's i'd probably win a hell of a lot more than the current pot.

I'm still just a bit curios about your first paragraph in you first post (which seems to contradict your second post). Do you think you overplayed it?
 
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shwingzilla

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I knew I was ahead, I just think that I risked pushing him out of the pot by reraising on the turn, especially since a nine came. I mean at that point I had a full house, the only thing that would've beaten me is two nines or 9-3, which I wasn't all that worried about.
 
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shwingzilla

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Even going by implied odds, it's still a bad call. Let's assume if a six hits I give him all my chips. So 50 chips for a pot of 1170. 50/1170 = 4.27% 1/23 = 4.35%. So with the best possible circumstances it's just barely +ev. Are you going to play poker assuming that your opponents do what will benefit you most? But what if a six doesn't hit, and I bet? Are you going to assume I'm still playing nothing? Or if a six doesn't hit, and I check? To say that I wouldn't check with a hand or that if I bet I'm probably bluffing is ridiculous, because I've proved that both of those things aren't true.
 
starfall

starfall

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I think the main stance is to bet enough that the other player has bad odds on calling, but not enough to push a bad player off... I'd opt for a fairly strong raise when you hit trips, though, because with the weak bet someone with an open-ended straight draw would definitely have the right odds to call you, so you're risking someone hitting a hand that would kill yours
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

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Ok early position you called with very very low pocket pair with 3 others following you in later position. Out of position making a call on a 12% to hit a set hoping that the 3 others in the hand have nothing. Seems to me you just got lucky thats all.
 
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