The hand I just busted out of the FT cardchat freeroll on

[jaketrevvor]

Maths puzzle: Should I call or fold? (by call I mean all-in)

full tilt poker Game #4068773700: Cardschat.com $350 Freeroll (30641982), Table 83 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:50:35 ET - 2007/11/04
Seat 1: cervantes27 (35,665)
Seat 2: jaketrevvor (2,080)
Seat 3: revees (1,535), is sitting out
Seat 4: leavembroke (14,445)
Seat 5: arahel_jazz (1,950)
Seat 6: Quads_00 (9,755)
Seat 7: pkrgrandma (34,897)
Seat 8: Seven T Eleven (18,758)
Seat 9: klst921 (15,470)
cervantes27 antes 25
jaketrevvor antes 25
revees antes 25
leavembroke antes 25
arahel_jazz antes 25
Quads_00 antes 25
pkrgrandma antes 25
Seven T Eleven antes 25
klst921 antes 25
Seven T Eleven posts the small blind of 150
klst921 posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jaketrevvor [Kd Jd]
klst921 folds
cervantes27 folds
jaketrevvor calls
revees folds
leavembroke folds
arahel_jazz folds
pkrgrandma calls
Seven T Eleven raises to 600
klst921 calls
jaketrevvor calls
*** FLOP *** [2d, 4h, Ad]
Seven T Eleven bets 1200
klst921 folds
jaketrevvor ....??


Oh, and I was only 30 from the money, so this might come into play

 

[pigpen02]

Not having pushed pre-flop, push now.

 

[Insomniac_1006]

I like your quote, in your sig.

But let's let someone more experienced with hand anas to come along and answer this.

Cheers

 

[Tigersmith]

The guy bet like 1/4 of the pot after the flop. and he minraised preflop. Suggests to me that he has some sort of medium pocket pair and or Ace rag on the small blind.

But since your chip stack is mad small, This is a PUSH. about 40% chance to make your hand, and these are good odds for the pot that is in play.

What did you end up doing?

 

[Cheezymadman]

I would fold. He's either got something big, or is at least repesenting something big, and the fact that you need runner runner for a solid hand, and just a single pocket ace would beat you if you don't hit both, means a laydown in my eyes.

 

[Tigersmith]

I would fold. He's either got something big, or is at least repesenting something big, and the fact that you need runner runner for a solid hand, and just a single pocket ace would beat you if you don't hit both, means a laydown in my eyes.

Why would he minraise on the SB with 4 people already in the pot, if he had a big hand.

And and he would not need runner runner for a solid hand. one diamond would prob take that pot down. Hopefully

 

[Chiefer]

not pushing preflop was your first mistake.

 

[Cheezymadman]

Why would he minraise on the SB with 4 people already in the pot, if he had a big hand.

And and he would not need runner runner for a solid hand. one diamond would prob take that pot down. Hopefully

Ah, you're right. I didn't notice the flush draw. Well, in that case, call him.

 

[jaketrevvor]

I realise that PF I played this hand very wrong as I am in push/fold mode and this is probs a fold due to me being way OOP, but moving on..

I did call with a bit of quick maths:-

The pot size was:
(antes) 9x25 = 225
(blinds) 150+300= 400
(PF action) 600+600+450+300 = 1950
(flop action) = 1200
POT = 3825

So I'm getting 3825 to 1200 on a call, but I'm going to have to call all-in on the turn with my remaining 155 chips, so I'm effectively calling 1355, getting 3825 to 1355 odds on a call = 2.8 to 1

I'm 1.6 to 1 on making my flush so the pot is laying me great odds. The odds are so good actually that the fact I'm this close to the money doesn't come into it, and if i did fold i would be left with only 4.5 BBs.



Anyhoo, I call, he turns over AcTh
Turn comes Qh
River comes 3s

I get angry but feel inner tranquility and making the correct move.. :angel:

jt

 

[mrsnake3695]

At no point in this hand was a call the right play. Pre-flop is push or fold and the same with post flop. Pre-flop you have some fold equity that you don't have post flop if villan is holding any ace.

 

[joeeagles]

I realise that PF I played this hand very wrong as I am in push/fold mode

Yep, and that answers the question. Limping PF just isn't good at all, it almost never is... particularly considering the size of your stack.

As played, on the flop you have to shove. As you pointed out odds were good for it so you made the right move even if results weren't what you hoped for.

 

[Melkor]

OOP with a hand like KJ and 30 off the money I want to push or fold. In a freeroll the table I doubt is playing much tighter on the bubble but I think their call to your push would be a little tighter. With there being 625 already in the pot, nobody in the pot and being very short on chips I shove.

As for your play, open limping is not my preferred play at all really. I would much rather see this hand just thrown away tbh. We are OOP and calling leaves us with 1700 and a pot of 900 or so. Once there is a call, a min-raise and then a call, with the pot now at 2100 I feel we again have to shove or fold, and shove is now my preferred play seeing as we have money invested in the pot. Unless you have a read that suggests min-raises from seven to eleven mean monsters, which a lot sometimes do, then it is a shove. A call is not feasable here, as it will leave your stack at 1400 compared to a 2400 pot, tough to get away from, what flop do you realistically fold on?

After the flop there is no question it is an insta-shove or call if it puts you all-in, the flop is a very positive outcome.

 

[jaketrevvor]

I still think fold PF not push but I was tilting due to losing 3/4 of my stack a couple hands ago and wasn't really thinking straight - might explain my frankly bizarre PF actions. Ah well... next sunday I'm taking it down!

 

[DaFrench1]

I realise that PF I played this hand very wrong as I am in push/fold mode and this is probs a fold due to me being way OOP, but moving on..

I did call with a bit of quick maths:-

The pot size was:
(antes) 9x25 = 225
(blinds) 150+300= 400
(PF action) 600+600+450+300 = 1950
(flop action) = 1200
POT = 3825

So I'm getting 3825 to 1200 on a call, but I'm going to have to call all-in on the turn with my remaining 155 chips, so I'm effectively calling 1355, getting 3825 to 1355 odds on a call = 2.8 to 1


Nice math, but have you ever thought of just enabling the option that shows you the size of the pot right in the middle of the table . Maybe laziness on my part but at least you have more time to consider other things during your turn...

 

[jaketrevvor]

lol I looking back that post isn't very clear.. I knew the pot size coz of that helpful number in the middle of the table - but I was just recreating it when writing this post. The "quick math" I did was the working out my odds on a call (well, actually odds on an all-in), which was perhaps not so impressive.

 

[arahel_jazz]

Ah well... next sunday I'm taking it down!

I look forward to seeing you at the final table Sunday, instead of both of us busting out within 5 minutes of each other.

 

[lottomode777]

I fold KJ against raise. But since you are under 10BB, which I am usually never at, I guess you have no choice but to reraise all in preflop. I'm either gone or doubled up before I drop below 10BB.