Good call or Donk call?

Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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Beginning to work on my odds and outs. Is my analysis correct? (in text off to side of data) Any constructive feedback would be most apprecieated.
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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No idea where my attachement when after it was uploaded.
****
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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worked on the blasted thing for way to long trying to cut and paste screenshots from bodog. Finally had an image that had all the pertinant data and then it was to big. Had to reslice it and up loaded it and i have no Idea where it went. It's not in my attachments folder. Only thing there is the stay-puft marshmallow man.

Had A 6 spades UTG
Limped in calling the big blind
Big blind over bet the pot $105 pot, raising it up to $270.
I call
one other caller
flop = 2 h Qs 7s

I believe that I had 12 outs, giving me a 48% to win
I am getting 2:1 pot odds so I need to have better than 33% to win. I do, I call and am all in.

Other player folds
Villian turns over KK
I sucked out the flush on the river.

Did I figure my odds and outs right?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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You didn't say what the flop action was. We need to compare our pot odds to our drawing odds to see if we made a correct call or not.

Regarding your outs, your aces aren't clean. Someone could have AQ or AK or a set, and you could be drawing to nothing but the flush (~2:1 to the river).

The biggest mistake I see here is limping and calling a bet that big at this stage of the game with A6. Fold preflop the first time around.
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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You didn't say what the flop action was.

Ah, oops, I was a tad tilted from working sooooo long on that file to upload and then it was gone... (actually, it would have been better for me to try to write it out in the first place)

Flop action
64 ford 500
Bet
$ 945.00
Tapa
All-in
$ 935.00
tomfred187
Fold
$ 0.00
64 ford 500
Return uncalled portion of bet
$ 10.00

Betting round completed
Last active pot = $0.00
Side pot 7 = $2,815.00


So My Aces were dirty, means that I should not count them when figuaring my outs, because my kicker is so week, correct?

So the only cards that will impove my hand is a spade. That would drop my outs to 9, correct?

And then applying the rule of 4 I have a 36% chance of getting the card that I need, right?

Thanks for the help
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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So My Aces were dirty, means that I should not count them when figuaring my outs, because my kicker is so week, correct?

Not because your kicker is weak, but because you might already be beat and an ace might not help. In situations like this, you count your unclean outs as partial outs. I'm not sure exactly how many outs your aces would count as, but I think it basically depends on how likely you think your ace is to be clean. Here, I think we can count one more out for the aces instead of three. That's just a guesstimation.
So the only cards that will impove my hand is a spade. That would drop my outs to 9, correct?

And then applying the rule of 4 I have a 36% chance of getting the card that I need, right?

Yes. The rule of 4 is fine, but remembering drawing odds is better. Study this odds chart (or another similar one), and try to remember the more common draws.

We're 1.86:1 to hit our flush by the river, and we're getting 1.88:1 pot odds, so we're just barely getting the right price. Factor in that extra out from our ace and we're definitely getting odds.

Again, the biggest problem here is your preflop action which lead to you putting your whole tournament on the line with a flush draw. In tournaments, the goal is survival. We don't want to put ourselves in spots like this. In a cash game, we're always calling when we've got an edge or when we're getting pot odds to make up for us being on the ugly side of the coin, but we should be waiting for bigger edges in tournaments.
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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Thank you very much! Some good points for me to consider about my game.

I don't see a chart for drawing odds in your post (maybe it is lost in cyberspace along with my hand history :)) Could you reference the source of the one that you find the most helpful.
cheers
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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Just keep in mind that you usually need to calculate your odd one street at a time (the exception being when you are all in of course). Your odd of making your flush are not 2:1 unless you are going to get to see both cards without further betting (i.e., you are all in on the flop).
 
Insomniac_1006

Insomniac_1006

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Just keep in mind that you usually need to calculate your odd one street at a time (the exception being when you are all in of course). Your odd of making your flush are not 2:1 unless you are going to get to see both cards without further betting (i.e., you are all in on the flop).

Thanks AG, I believe it will be a while before i can actually figure my odds during play in my head though. But once I get the math down, I should be a force to be reconned with.
cheers
 
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