$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: straight flush draw aganist set in the flop?

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kefir

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we plain count the outs:
turn:
1. 2 outs to win the hand (7 and 2 of spades)
2. 3+3+9 outs to straight or flush modulo straight flush (any of the remaining 2s+any of remaining 7+any of the remaining spades exept 9)
3. 1+9 outs for him for the quads or full house (9 or anything what pairs the board)
4. anything else 18 outs

river
in case 1.
44 outs for us to win
in case 2
1+4*3 outs for the 99 to win (9+ anything what pairs the board)
31 outs for us to win
in case 3
2 outs for us to win
42 outs for 99 to win
in case 4
17 outs for us to win
27 outs for 99 to win

so the whole probability for us to win is 2/45*1+15/45*31/44+10/45*2/44
18/45*17/44=879/1980~=0.44

Please check yourself. No guarantees, that I can think or count.
 
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pokerlogs_net

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ok thanks for your answer. so at the bottom line this is losing hand in this case although at first look it might look like a good option to push all in.
 
horizon12

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LOL, flash draw have 8 out , about hand what you add ... its equity 40% vs 60% in flop, and 30% vs 70% in turn...
 
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kefir

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LOL, flash draw have 8 out , about hand what you add ... its equity 40% vs 60% in flop, and 30% vs 70% in turn...

my counting gives me 9 outs for a just flush draw or I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draw_(poker)?

But the bottom line remains that it is a loosing hand.

I also made a mistake in my post.

case 2. is 3+3 +7=13 outs

I forgot to substract outs for a straight flush from case 1.
2/45*1+13/45*31/44+10/45*2/44
18/45*15/44=781/1980~=0.39

It remains a loosing hand. And again a disclaimer: everything I write can be a complete BS.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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there are 14 outs. 6 non spade outs for the straight and 8 remaining spades (the 9 of spades makes him quads).

only 2 of those outs will make you the stone cold nuts....but when counting outs we consider all 14 to be our "outs". sometimes your "outs" still won't result in you wining the hand....oftentimes those are called "dirty outs" but it's usually best not to worry about those since your opponent has to have a very specific hand for that to matter.

so, if you know you are facing a set you should generally find a fold with all monster draws. In this specific example, you have 42% equity and he has 58% equity. The problem is, how often do you actually KNOW you are facing a set? almost never. People will play overpairs, 2 pair and sometimes even TPTK very strong sometimes. On this board, it's hard to suspect 2 pair but depending on the preflop action there could easily be an overpair.

Also, sometimes you'll be facing another draw. So let's say they didn't have a set of nines, they just had the Ace high flush draw (something like :as4::8s4:) now they're thinking they have 9 outs plus 1 over, so they think they have 12 outs. If you're facing a better draw you're usually in WORSE shape than if you're facing a set. In this example however, because you have a MONSTER DRAW (meaning you have flush outs, straight outs, and straight flush outs. basically any time you have 14+ outs on the flop you have a monster draw). you are in OK shape even against a "better flush draw". if he has the better flush draw, then 7 of your flush outs are gone, but you still have 2 straightflush outs (and the implied odds on those is HUGE because you'll get his whole stack) and you still have 6 open ended straight draw outs, and since he doesn't even have a pair, you still have 6 outs to a pair which could win. so you actually still have 14 outs on this flop even if you're facing a seemingly "better" draw!!

so....what am I saying with all of that? You can't usually be so sure that you're facing a set and vs most villain's ranges a monster draw is doing quite well, even sometimes facing "better" draws. You gotta be willing to gamble in tourneys with your monster draws and just understand that sometimes you'll be shown hands that have you crushed...oh well, move on (and sometimes you'll be shown hands that have you crushed and then you'll suck out!).

Confrontations between strong made hands and strong draws is how big stacks are made in tournaments. (that and coolers). Play your monster draws very strongly!!
 
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