I am terrible at these hands where it is blind vs blind (especially when I am in the BB facing a raise from SB) and I have a hand that is good but not great. If you dont mind I would like to pick your brain a little about this hand. My questions to you are not to be taken in a sense of "what the hell were you thinking when you wrote that" but more of a "why do you think that so I can understand it and try to get better". I totally get the pre action as Ax is too good to fold there. The flop though I get confused and scared when I play in these hands. You said this is a call even with this sizing. What is your thought process then going forward in the hand? At this stack depth and villain already putting in 800 do we see them giving up often? I would think not so what is our game plan then going to the turn when an overcard comes? An undercard? I feel like if we make this call given the stack depth then we are bluff catching (I get that) but how much bluff catching should we be prepared to do in these spots and how far do we go with it? I find myself folding the flop in this spot (probably incorrect) since I feel like I will have to go all the way with what undoubtedly will be mid pair by the time the river comes. Just always feel lost here (probably because I feel like I cant range villain as they will be opening super wide here) and have my frequencies of calling and folding way off.
Sorry for all the questions (I bolded them) but hoping you can give your insight of what you would be thinking while playing this hand and your thoughts on future streets after you make the call on the flop.
I think, these are great questions, and I am happy to answer them. First off all I think, a lot of tournament players are uncomfortable playing turns and rivers, and therefore they get into this mindset of always wanting to end the hand preflop or on the flop. In this case either by folding (you) or by moving him all-in (hero). But turns and rivers are where, a lot of EV is won or lost, and these streets are not always easy for the opponent either. So first of all I think, this is something, both you and hero in this hand might want to work on.
That being said this spot certainly is awkward with just over a pot sized bet left, if we call. But we need to remember, that its also awkward for the opponent, unless he have fat value, and its his tournament life at risk. You say, that you dont see him giving up often, and I kind of disagree with that. Its certainly not uncommon with stacks this short to take a stab at the flop and then basically give up, if the opponent continue.
Bluff catching is another thing, which a lot of people are not comfortable with. We learn a tight and aggressive style, where we are usually in the drivers seat, and this makes us feel more comfortable. But we cant always have the initiative, so its important to learn to defend well, and bluff catching is also an area, where a lot of EV is won or lost.
So we are basically just playing poker. In this case a Q came on the turn, and lets say, he now move in for a little more than the size of the pot. Do we think, he is doing this with second pair? Probably not, so in reality the Q changed nothing. He either have a hand like top pair, which we were behind to the whole time, or he is still
bluffing.
Without reads I probably fold to a turn jam, and I would likely also fold to a turn jam on a low card. Now some will jump out and say "but if you are folding on the turn, then why call the flop?" And the answer is, that by calling the flop, we are putting him to the test to risk all his chips to bluff us out of the pot, and often people just wont do that. So a turn jam is usually a stronger range with less bluffs than the flop bet, especially when he is the player at risk.
But sometimes he will actually check the turn, and then on this card I would check back. I think, its to thin to bet for value, and I basically want to try to take my pair to showdown as cheaply as possible. If he then bet the river, I am most likely calling regardless of his sizing, because now I have kind of told him, I dont have a K, and that could give him an incentive to try a last minute bluff.
Finally it is worth mentioning, that even when we are behind, we are not drawing dead on the flop. Some hands like sets, AA and AK have us is bad shape, but against hands like KQ, KJ, KT or K9, we have 5 outs. Which is not enough given the pot
odds, if we were only drawing, but in this case we are also ahead of bluffs, like the one he had. So with second pair we are drawing AND bluff catching at the same time.
