$Freeroll NL HE MTT:

[Marshmalo1994]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

Freeroll

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

-Freeroll satellite to the WCOOP Main Event.
-2 Tickets.
-7th position.
-13 Players remaining.

I didn't have any info about the villain, but since I was moved into the table, I saw him limp 3/4 hands. With two showdowns: KT and Q9.

What do you think? It was a standard hand or do you think I should have done something different?

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pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 8,000/16,000 (1,600 ante) - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

spartaner1112 (UTG): 336,312 (21 bb)
RAV421 (MP): 146,000 (9 bb)
Negri.94 (CO): 209,340 (13 bb)
skipper1365 (BU): 213,552 (13 bb)
kkdop (SB): 141,129 (9 bb)
m2xr (BB): 485,691 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (33,600) Hero (Negri.94) is CO with J♣ J♥
spartaner1112 (UTG) calls 16,000, RAV421 (MP) calls 16,000, Negri.94 (CO) raises to 80,000, 3 players fold, spartaner1112 (UTG) 3-bets to 176,000, 1 fold, Negri.94 (CO) 4-bets to 207,740 (all-in), spartaner1112 (UTG) calls 31,740

Flop: (465,080) 6♠ 4♦ T♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (465,080) Q♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (465,080) K♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 465,080

Showdown:
Negri.94 (CO) shows J♣ J♥ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

spartaner1112 (UTG) shows A♠ A♣ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

spartaner1112 (UTG) wins 465,080

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Maybe I was tempted to double, cause I would have reached the 3rd or 2nd position.
Also, if I would have folded, my stack would have been 8BB. Enough to try another shot, but obligated to push or fold.

 

[jonaselloco]

Hello Negri how are you brother
That move at a final table is really known by the villains quite a bit, it's risky but out there it knows how to pay off.
I think your 4bet miniraise was not bad, in that position I would have possibly miniraised or 3bet and waited.
Now, when the villain 4bets you, unless you've seen him bluff too much, really because of the range you should think that AA or KK doesn't happen, especially if he saw you play. I played you at a table and you're not a clownish player, so I reckon he saw his chance to take you out.
Perhaps he analyzed that you were a certain risk for him at the table.-
When he 4bet I would have possibly seen the flop in case he won the set and of course if all low cards fell it is very likely that he would have called the same as if he won the set.
If already on the flop I saw that there was a card like Q K or A I would fold.
It's like that, dear friend, many times the ranges are very important, and well, if we have to fold, it's a good measure. It's not that you're a coward because of it, but that you give yourself a new and better opportunity.
Greetings brother... Carlos

 

[theStarfish]

This is just very unfortunate. Like you said, if you would have folded the hand, you are in a push or fold mode. And because there are only two tickets available and you only had 13 BB in a turbo tournament at the beginning of the hand I think you had no other choice than to risk your chips with Jacks and hope for your opponent to have AK or AQ. Of course you can fold to a 4-bet and hope for a better spot, but will a better spot come soon enough?

 

[eetenor]

-Freeroll satellite to the WCOOP Main Event.
-2 Tickets.
-7th position.
-13 Players remaining.

I didn't have any info about the villain, but since I was moved into the table, I saw him limp 3/4 hands. With two showdowns: KT and Q9.

What do you think? It was a standard hand or do you think I should have done something different?

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PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 8,000/16,000 (1,600 ante) - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

spartaner1112 (UTG): 336,312 (21 bb)
RAV421 (MP): 146,000 (9 bb)
Negri.94 (CO): 209,340 (13 bb)
skipper1365 (BU): 213,552 (13 bb)
kkdop (SB): 141,129 (9 bb)
m2xr (BB): 485,691 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (33,600) Hero (Negri.94) is CO with J♣ J♥
spartaner1112 (UTG) calls 16,000, RAV421 (MP) calls 16,000, Negri.94 (CO) raises to 80,000, 3 players fold, spartaner1112 (UTG) 3-bets to 176,000, 1 fold, Negri.94 (CO) 4-bets to 207,740 (all-in), spartaner1112 (UTG) calls 31,740

Flop: (465,080) 6♠ 4♦ T♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (465,080) Q♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (465,080) K♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 465,080

Showdown:
Negri.94 (CO) shows J♣ J♥ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

spartaner1112 (UTG) shows A♠ A♣ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

spartaner1112 (UTG) wins 465,08

Watching replayer have not seen results
We have 12.5BB there is 4 bb to be won by shoving if everyone folds this is an all-in - not raise spot most often-
Stopped before card reveal- The one player who we did not want to see check raise or shove did so----this is sooo often AA- The small check raise is too fancy to be much else most often- I would be expecting to be behind at this point-not always players do weird things so if you saw them being weird before than go for it. Most players do not fold here as played but it is a fold spot

Yes it was AA of course it was- the small XR in this spot screams AA by the way it is a huge tell-
If we can put them on AA KK then we have to fold -the pot is not offering us the correct odds to call

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Thanks guys! Too bad I made that mistake that late in the tournament.
I did put him in a AK- AQ range (even so, idk if it's correct to call), but as I said, maybe it's cause I was tempted to double that didn't see it that clear.

 

[puzzlefish]

Think about it. What limp calls UTG and then re-raises when you raise? There's no reason for a drawing hand to do that out of position and it's highly unlikely to do that if your villain has any intention of folding to your jam. It's almost always AA or KK. Sometimes QQ.

 

[fundiver199]

With a stack size of just 13BB the standard play is to open shove, and when someone have already limped, its even more of a shove spot. We are not looking to put in 40% of our chips preflop and then fold later, because..... something. The fact, someone had AA and won the hand, dont matter. This is just something, that will happen from time to time. It could also have been someone behind, who had QQ or KK. Or someone could have called with A4 and spiked an ace. Losing is part of poker, and going bust with 13BB is very normal and unavoidable. So all, that matter, are the decisions leading up to busting, and in this case raising small was a fairly substantial mistake.

As for the guy limping UTG with AA, it did not give him any advantage. The standard play for him was a min-raise, and then JJ is still supposed to jam over that min-raise, so the result would have been just the same, if both had played the hand in the normal way. Also you had seen him limp trash, so obviously his entire limping range is not AA. This is again something, which will just happen from time to time. And unless its a known regular suddenly limping in a weird spot, limping does not mean, someone have AA. So just because, people occationally limp with AA, does not mean, we should stop attacking limpers.

 

[fundiver199]

It's almost always AA or KK. Sometimes QQ.

With deep stacks a limp then 3-betting range is more skewed towards strong hand. But here Hero had already put in 40% of his chips, which committed Hero to the pot. When your opponent is already committed, it makes no sense to just call out of position. So UTGs 3-betting range should be anything, he dont want to fold, and that is certainly way wider than just QQ+.

 

[Andyreas]

I agree with fundiver, that you should have jammed over his limp. It wouldn't change the outcome here but at least it would likely make him fold any KT and Q9 like hands and you could pick up 3 BBs.

Just wasn't the case here and there's no getaway from JJ vs. AA, unfortunately.

Wish your limited stack, you have no fold equity with any 4-bet anymore, so better to get all of your stack in it preflop.

 

[fundiver199]

It wouldn't change the outcome here but at least it would likely make him fold any KT and Q9 like hands and you could pick up 3 BBs.

More like 4BB, since there were two limpers. But yeah the whole point of jamming is, we want hands like KT or Q9 to fold, because then we deny their equity. And we also avoid gross and unprofitable postflop spots, if someone just call, and the flop comes say KQ4. I mean like how the heck do you play JJ on that board, when there is less than a pot sized bet left?

 

[puzzlefish]

With deep stacks a limp then 3-betting range is more skewed towards strong hand. But here Hero had already put in 40% of his chips, which committed Hero to the pot. When your opponent is already committed, it makes no sense to just call out of position. So UTGs 3-betting range should be anything, he dont want to fold, and that is certainly way wider than just QQ+.

I get what you are saying, but this is a sat with top two players getting tickets to a main event, and close to the final table. I don't think the play is quite the same as what you are thinking. UTG, who is even closer to the top 2, wouldn't take unnecessary risks like trying to get the hero all-in unless they had a strong hand in this spot. Maybe it doesn't make much of a difference in the end what the villain had, but in my experience that's what these spots are - an AA or KK trap. Perhaps the hero was doomed here, but perhaps there would have been a better spot to get it all in just a few hands later.

 

[jonaselloco]

I get what you are saying, but this is a sat with top two players getting tickets to a main event, and close to the final table. I don't think the play is quite the same as what you are thinking. UTG, who is even closer to the top 2, wouldn't take unnecessary risks like trying to get the hero all-in unless they had a strong hand in this spot. Maybe it doesn't make much of a difference in the end what the villain had, but in my experience that's what these spots are - an AA or KK trap. Perhaps the hero was doomed here, but perhaps there would have been a better spot to get it all in just a few hands later.

I totally agree with puzzlefish.
The rank was too high, he placed it in QQ + I placed it in KK + in my comment
I think the bad move is in my friend Negri's initial 4bet, or if it was a 3bet then it was a fold and move on. Maximo called and see the flop nothing more than that.
Greetings guys

 

[dallam]

This limping strategy with this low on BBs are not working at all. Probably the UTG guy as you mentioned likes to play weak hands as well like K10 and Q9 and desperately trying to hide the strenght he has here by doing the same wrong tactic. In general if you have 13bbs you have to shove JJ, picking up the blinds - which in this case were already pumped up with 2 more.

I wanna add some key-line to your thinking:
- You can't put your opponent here to a range AK-AQ at all. This limp lacks all the pot building moves, giving space to weak cards to join and maybe see this deep such a cheap flop, and hitting their poor outs. There's no guarantee for the AA that someone will pull the trigger at the table of 6. Also there can be several people who wanna take an advantage of this limp, and pull the trigger at the same time - and even the Rockets are the best hand Pre, there's a chance that a multiway pot it will be beaten by suited combinations which could find a fold if AA would be outplayed in the right way.
AK and AQ are too strong but yet wournarable to run as limp ; and having such a small player field until the tickets.
But to see a possible limping range on this level with this donk style that was interpreted: Ax, any suited hands, any low pockets, KJ-K8, QJ-Q9, J10-J8, 109.

- You did a huge mistake by going for the 5bb 3bet. At this point 13bbs can only do two things: push & fold. To protect all the shovable hands you have, you very often have to play them all on the same way as an all-in. When you're making a 5bb bet here to the limpers, you expose your hand to premium ones, and did not give an air to a possible bluff, and you maybe miss a chance to a double or triple-up. You should go all-in with so many weaker combinations in this position you were so don't give additional information about the hand your have, just put them under the pressure. Especially when they 're limping in as a strategically bad way.

- 13 players left and only 2 gets a ticket. This is very far, not even bubble. You need to take a chance several times to reach the glory. So you need to play poker to your best knowledge, and can't be tight in the hope that somehow you're sneaking into the top2. If you have 13bbs you have to run the small stack strategy which can result you to being eliminated, at least you can say you tried your best, and not making wrong direction of thoughts by speculating that if you could fold JJ here you could stay in this longer. The optimal outplay is to push JJ all-in pre from your position here, and if you're out accept it cause you made the right play.

Good luck for you!

 

[fundiver199]

I get what you are saying, but this is a sat with top two players getting tickets to a main event, and close to the final table. I don't think the play is quite the same as what you are thinking. UTG, who is even closer to the top 2, wouldn't take unnecessary risks like trying to get the hero all-in unless they had a strong hand in this spot. Maybe it doesn't make much of a difference in the end what the villain had, but in my experience that's what these spots are - an AA or KK trap. Perhaps the hero was doomed here, but perhaps there would have been a better spot to get it all in just a few hands later.

It is a fair point, that even loose and splashy players will likely thighten up to some extend, when they can eye a price, which for them is pretty significant. In this case a $109 ticket, assuming the ticket is for the Low main event. However with 13 remaining and only 2 tickets rewarded, its not like, this was near the bubble. And also OP had seen the opponent limp 3/4 hands and show down KT and Q9. So I still think, its very result oriented to put him on a narrow range, just because he happened to have AA.

This hand happened today in a $11 MTT on PokerStars, and I think, it illustrate, that a "limp EP and then jam over an isolation raise for 13BB effective" range is not only AA or KK. People will show up with hands like this far to often for OP to even consider folding JJ getting such a good price. And yes in this one a bad beat happened, but thats not really important

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