Big draw, knowing your behind...

[TimmyOtool]

Effective stacks 50-100 BB. Loose passive game, very fishy players lots of action.

Multi-way pot.

I'm sitting w/ Ad8d mid position, open for 3BB.

Cut-off, button and BB calls. POT 13BB

FLOP

6d7d9h

BB checks to me and I bet 6BB (Usually this is enough to win the pot, players at the table are mostly loose/passive)

Cut-off calls, and button makes it 20BB to go. BB shoves 30BB

Now what should I do? Cut-off and Button both have about 70BB TOTAL.

POT size is 75BB before coming back to me facing a 24BB re-raise w/ 2 people behind me...

**I don't think anyone here has a straight. I'm guessing one person is on a draw same as mine**

I was thinking this is my gambling spot since the pot odds and the implied odds are there for my 15 outer + over card (3). ~50% against over pair/2 pair hands.

I make the 24BB call, so does the cut-off and button calls the extra 10BB.

POT stands at ~130BB

Turn

2h

I check, cut off checks and the button ships his remaining 40 or so BB into the pot, I make the call and the cut off now folds. (~30% against pair/2 pair hands.)

River

Ac

BB shows 9c7c, Button shows 9s7s


Didn't come out the way I wanted it to... but should I have gambled and shoved? Or was the wait and call shove the appropriate move since it might save me a bet if for some miracle he checks behind...

Or better question yet, how is this avoidable? I knew that was an action board, but with our stacks so deep, I did not want to 'gamble' for everything one a draw knowing I'm behind... Its hard to play small ball since there is so much fold equity in betting because many times the players will give up if they totally miss. I was thinking worse case scenario is that I'm up against the made straight or a set, in which case my % would have been much lower...

Input is welcome. Flaming is welcome

 

[TimmyOtool]

Just realized this might be in the wrong forum *my bad*

 

[Debi]

moved it for you

 

[Jillychemung]

FLOP

6d7d9h

BB checks to me and I bet 6BB (Usually this is enough to win the pot, players at the table are mostly loose/passive)

Cut-off calls, and button makes it 20BB to go. BB shoves 30BB

Now what should I do?

Right here is where your decision making should have ended. You should either have folded or gone AI.

IMHO, fold preflop as A-rag is sooo much trouble OOP especially with the shorther stacks behind you.

 

[silverslugger33]

I would call here. The express odds aren't great, but aren't horrible, and if you hit the flush, your implied odds are great. The straight isn't as well disguised, but there's enough in the pot already, that it's still a great situation for you. Anyway, with these draws, I don't think you can get away from it.

 

[mecoble]

push all in on flop or dont play it, dont like playing a8 from midposition, but u got a dream flop

 

[postflopper]

if u chose to play A8 suited in mid position, and flopped a nut flush/ open ended str8 draw, it's either all-in or fold for u with that much action. true, it's a gambling spot, but thats what i like.

 

[nevadanick]

push all in on flop or dont play it, dont like playing a8 from midposition, but u got a dream flop

Yep, a dream flop, and a nightmare showdown.

A,8 (any A,rag) OOP - bad play. Oh, wait, but they were soooooooooted...

 

[S93]

Shove over the top on the flop. your favorite even against an narrow range like 66+(set+overpairs) but that drops dramatically if the turn bricks so you whant the money in on the flop...
Like other said fold pre flop.

 

[Egon Towst]

I think the title of this thread should properly read "knowing you`re behind".

What OP has written suggests an intimate examination of one`s buttocks. Not something we usually discuss at Cardschat.

 

[nomasburros]

i cant tell you how mant times i have been sitting in this position....knowing your probably already beat...shove all in anyways..and get smoked...this is horribly frustrating..especially when it does the exact same thing next hand ..you watch someone else make the same play you did..and bam flush comes..i call this the carrot flop..you always feel like the horse chasing a carrot on a stick right??..but really how do you get away from this hand...every scenario seems to point in your favor here right???..why are we consistently losing to the worst possible hands here all the time??..

 

[viking999]

I can't believe all the people saying "all-in or fold". How can folding ever be better than calling? Folding would be verifiably insane. Even against a set, you have the right odds. I guess if you were against a set, a straight, and a flush draw, then you're in fairly bad shape, but that's so damn unlikely. On the bubble, then it's excusable to fold as well.

I'm inclined to call instead of shove. In this situation, the weakest player is first to act after you, and a shove will get him to fold a lot of weak hands that you want to stay in. If you call, he's going to be getting sick odds and feel obliged to call with weak draws. The last thing I want to do is convince him to fold a flush draw. You get a larger share for 6 of your outs if you force out straight draws, but I wouldn't rule out the button or BB having an 8 in their hand. In those cases, it's totally irrelevant if you force out a draw in the CO. So in short, I like calling over shoving not because you might get away from the hand on the turn, but rather because it helps pot commit some hands that might otherwise fold.

 

[TimmyOtool]

Generally I limit the amount of Ax suited I play especially from OOP, but because of the nature of the table, I've been playing aggressive preflop and mostly taking down most of the pots or taking down the pots on the flop.

It was too much action for me to bow out on the flop and I'd be close to even money against anything other then a made hand or a set..

 

[Janon]

that is quite the draw had with 2 more cards to go i probably would have called since you had nut flush draw no straight flush since you had the 8 so i would have probably pushed or fold as somone else said not a good idea to call pushing would atleast make 1 person not play so your outs of winning would improve

 

[EvilEmperor]

With the flush draw being to the nuts here plus the straight draw on the flop my only thought process would be whether to insta shove or pretend to think about it a while then shove.